Rose's Hardest Matchups and Easiest Matchups

[Pappioll]

The Chun match up isn’t reliant on fireballs though; it’s an even 1v1 footsie battle; since she has pokes that beat you and you have pokes that beat her and there’s a specific range that the match should be played.

Honda isn’t a poking match, it’s about how well you know your ranges so you can just crouch and make him fear jumping or walking forward and throw fireballs while you’re at it.

Gief IMO got easier because he lost EX Green Hand knockdown. The LP SPD range doesn’t really make a big different for Rose. But EX Green Hand -> U2 is a fair mixup and that is hard to get around for Rose.

Obviously, as Rose, you don’t want to throw fireballs agaisn’t Chun since she can punish them easily with hazanshu. Chun on the other hand **can **throw fireballs since she can get around reflects with hazanshu. Once you stop reflecting, Chun can use her fireballs to get around your pokes. Chun has great pokes, great focus to counter your slide, safejump after sweep knockdown and cr.hp x legs pressure which you can’t really do anything about. Besides, Chun with U1 will shut down your reflects, and once she gets that super you are extremely limited. I mean, you can’t even use cr.mp on her block. And the footsie battle will be in her favour because of her st.mp x super. In AE, Chun has more tools to break down Rose.

And the makoto matchup is far away from 7-3. Sure, it may seem correct against crap Makoto’s that haven’t learned that they don’t need to respect Rose’s options. They for sure will have trouble getting in. But the good ones - nah ah. The only thing she might have to watch out for is EX Soul Throw since it’s damaging and sets up for the untechable knockdown. Once she gets in (which really isn’t that hard for her) it’s a complete guessing game for Rose.

[Trike]

You can’t get around HP reflect with Hazanshu. It keeps them honest. I still firmly believe that Chun-Rose is 5-5.

[Rose]

Obviously, as Rose, you don’t want to throw fireballs agaisn’t Chun since she can punish them easily with hazanshu. Chun on the other hand **can **throw fireballs since she can get around reflects with hazanshu. Once you stop reflecting, Chun can use her fireballs to get around your pokes. Chun has great pokes, great focus to counter your slide, safejump after sweep knockdown and cr.hp x legs pressure which you can’t really do anything about. Besides, Chun with U1 will shut down your reflects, and once she gets that super you are extremely limited. I mean, you can’t even use cr.mp on her block. And the footsie battle will be in her favour because of her st.mp x super. In AE, Chun has more tools to break down Rose.

And the makoto matchup is far away from 7-3. Sure, it may seem correct against crap Makoto’s that haven’t learned that they don’t need to respect Rose’s options. They for sure will have trouble getting in. But the good ones - nah ah. The only thing she might have to watch out for is EX Soul Throw since it’s damaging and sets up for the untechable knockdown. Once she gets in (which really isn’t that hard for her) it’s a complete guessing game for Rose.

Actually, neither character wants to throw fireballs, Hazanshu isn’t fast enough to beat reflects if you reflect at the right distance; it will go over but it can easily be focused.

You have great pokes; her focus has a high hitbox, so it’s not a GREAT FOCUS to counter your slide and she doesn’t have as good as pressure as Rose does.

That’s what separates the match up; Chun Li has better footsies (in general, Rose can compete), and Rose hopes for a knockdown because Chun’s wake up is equally as crappy as hers.

And MAkoto; Art beat one of the best Japanese Makotos and the japanese Roses always beat MAkoto.

[Pappioll]

Actually, neither character wants to throw fireballs, Hazanshu isn’t fast enough to beat reflects if you reflect at the right distance; it will go over but it can easily be focused.

You have great pokes; her focus has a high hitbox, so it’s not a GREAT FOCUS to counter your slide and she doesn’t have as good as pressure as Rose does.

That’s what separates the match up; Chun Li has better footsies (in general, Rose can compete), and Rose hopes for a knockdown because Chun’s wake up is equally as crappy as hers.

And MAkoto; Art beat one of the best Japanese Makotos and the japanese Roses always beat MAkoto.

Most of the time, you will eat the hazanshu if you reflect. It’s not hard to predict if Rose decides to reflect a fireball. Even if you block hazanshu, Chun will be at best -1 if you block the HK version of it. However, MK leaves her at 0. So even there, Chun is in your face. Once Chun has U1, she can throw as many fireballs as she wants. She can just sit back and react to what you decide to do. Chun’s focus is good, and it does the job against slide. We’re not talking Juri’s focus attack here. Rose’s pressure is better than Chun’s? No. Chun can rush, Rose can’t. Again, good Chuns who use cr.hp x legs on your block leads to great pressure. Chun’s pressure after knockdown (sweep, EX legs) is far better than Rose’s.

Even if Art beat one of the best japanese Makotos, it’s completely irrelevant when talking match ups. Congrats to him. All I know is that 7-3 in Rose’s favour is over the top. Super, sure, but AE no. Just no.

You can’t get around HP reflect with Hazanshu. It keeps them honest. I still firmly believe that Chun-Rose is 5-5.

She can still jump over HP reflect because the trajectory of the fireball isn’t angled enough. I play against Skatan’s Chun, and I desperately use HP version in some situations when I know that he wants to do Hazanshu to get in on me, though Chun can still dodge the fireball.

[Rose]

Most of the time, you will eat the hazanshu if you reflect. It’s not hard to predict if Rose decides to reflect a fireball. Even if you block hazanshu, Chun will be at best -1 if you block the HK version of it. However, MK leaves her at 0. So even there, Chun is in your face. Once Chun has U1, she can throw as many fireballs as she wants. She can just sit back and react to what you decide to do. Chun’s focus is good, and it does the job against slide. We’re not talking Juri’s focus attack here. Rose’s pressure is better than Chun’s? No. Chun can rush, Rose can’t. Again, good Chuns who use cr.hp x legs on your block leads to great pressure. Chun’s pressure after knockdown (sweep, EX legs) is far better than Rose’s.

Even if Art beat one of the best japanese Makotos, it’s completely irrelevant when talking match ups. Congrats to him. All I know is that 7-3 in Rose’s favour is over the top. Super, sure, but AE no. Just no.

She can still jump over HP reflect because the trajectory of the fireball isn’t angled enough. I play against Skatan’s Chun, and I desperately use HP version in some situations when I know that he wants to do Hazanshu to get in on me, though Chun can still dodge the fireball.

Chun’s would rather do a cr. short o/s sweep into tick throw, they can’t put as much pressure as Rose. Chun without meter cannot deal with regular Rose spiral pressure that well.

I play Nashfan’s Chun like a lot; walk back as Chun does, walk forward as Chun does. Reflecting well not lead to an ultra; because the ultra has to be pre-emptive, so you just have to mix up your options.

Actually, by using Ultra 1 in the match up (Nashfan stopped doing that against me), you stop Rose’s crappy fireball that you would’ve stopped with a Hazanshu anyway; U2 is a better option because Chun Li loses out on a lot of damage when she uses U1. No GOOD Rose, will ever match fireballs; no Rose will ever reflect at the range where it’s obvious they’re looking for it and they’re pre-emptive. To U1 reflect, it has to be preemptive; if they Hazanshu of a good Rose reflect; they’ll be jabbed out of it. you can also mix up your reflects. Reflect up so their Hazanshu hit’s the fireball.

And no, this is what separates Rose as a character from Chun; Rose can rush and keep pressure with frame traps better than Chun can. Rose also has that 50 more health which counts for a lot in this match; that’s an extra st. strong she has to hit.

[jason87]

…She can still jump over HP reflect because the trajectory of the fireball isn’t angled enough. I play against Skatan’s Chun, and I desperately use HP version in some situations when I know that he wants to do Hazanshu to get in on me, though Chun can still dodge the fireball.

Well that match is about adjusting and reading the player. If you read a hizanshu, HP reflect for the MOST PART will beat it. If he adjusts and starts to jump you can instead pretend to reflect and jump instead. Or, you can mix it up with focus bdash. Sometimes, simply blocking is the best option.

I do however, still think the matchup is slightly in Chun’s favor. It’s at best even and at worse 5.5 in her favor. Somewhere inbetween? Overall, chun has better normals, but rose’s mid range game definitely keeps the footsies battle close. Good focus attacks in general counter rose’s slide so you have to keep them honest with low forward baits, spaced hk spirals, and sometimes just blocking.

When has rose not gotten punished for overextending with her fireball? Like basically over HALF her matchups, she loses the ability to throw fireballs halfway through the match.

[Pappioll]

Chun’s would rather do a cr. short o/s sweep into tick throw, they can’t put as much pressure as Rose. Chun without meter cannot deal with regular Rose spiral pressure that well.

I play Nashfan’s Chun like a lot; walk back as Chun does, walk forward as Chun does. Reflecting well not lead to an ultra; because the ultra has to be pre-emptive, so you just have to mix up your options.

Actually, by using Ultra 1 in the match up (Nashfan stopped doing that against me), you stop Rose’s crappy fireball that you would’ve stopped with a Hazanshu anyway; U2 is a better option because Chun Li loses out on a lot of damage when she uses U1. No GOOD Rose, will ever match fireballs; no Rose will ever reflect at the range where it’s obvious they’re looking for it and they’re pre-emptive. To U1 reflect, it has to be preemptive; if they Hazanshu of a good Rose reflect; they’ll be jabbed out of it. you can also mix up your reflects. Reflect up so their Hazanshu hit’s the fireball.

And no, this is what separates Rose as a character from Chun; Rose can rush and keep pressure with frame traps better than Chun can. Rose also has that 50 more health which counts for a lot in this match; that’s an extra st. strong she has to hit.

That’s the generic Chun. Chun users who can utilize cr.hp x legs as pressure will take advantage of it in this matchup. Chuns walkspeed is fast enough to allow her to simply walk backwards as you land max range cr.mp on block x spiral. She can therefore avoid the HK spiral and whiff punish by just holding back instead of holding downback as most players tend to do when they expect a spiral after max range cr.mp/cr.mk.

Chun players who pick U2 against Rose are seriously out of their mind. By picking U2, you open up alot of options for Rose that would have been limited when picking U1. U1 let’s Chun control the space while limiting Rose. And its reward is far better than Kikosho. Have fun against CH st.mp x U1. U1 is also better for punishing cr.mp/cr.mk x spiral since it’s not a true blockstring. And it’s not like the Chun player will think "Oh I’m not gonna pick U1, I can punish with Hazanshu anyway!. The difference here is the damage output. And if the Chun player is smart, he should go for U1, because I’d rather eat a hazanshu into combo than Hosenka.

Well that match is about adjusting and reading the player. If you read a hizanshu, HP reflect for the MOST PART will beat it. If he adjusts and starts to jump you can instead pretend to reflect and jump instead. Or, you can mix it up with focus bdash. Sometimes, simply blocking is the best option.

When has rose not gotten punished for overextending with her fireball? Like basically over HALF her matchups, she loses the ability to throw fireballs halfway through the match.

From my experience, HP reflect loses to hazanshu most of the time. It’s only useful agaisnt poorly spaced hazanshus at max range which results in Chun landing on the fireball. And about the fireball part - I haven’t said that Rose needs to rely on her fireballs, it’s the fact that Chun can lock you down with Hosenka because it shuts down the reflect part of your game. A lot of characters have tools to get around Rose’s fireball in general, reflect however, not so many.

No GOOD Rose, will ever match fireballs; no Rose will ever reflect at the range where it’s obvious they’re looking for it and they’re pre-emptive. To U1 reflect, it has to be preemptive; if they Hazanshu of a good Rose reflect; they’ll be jabbed out of it. you can also mix up your reflects. Reflect up so their Hazanshu hit’s the fireball.

My Rose is good. And of course I’m aware of the fact that you have to “mix it up”. But when you place all the cards on the table, Chun has more tools to beat Rose.

[jason87]

From my experience, HP reflect loses to hazanshu most of the time. It’s only useful agaisnt poorly spaced hazanshus at max range which results in Chun landing on the fireball. And about the fireball part - I haven’t said that Rose needs to rely on her fireballs, it’s the fact that Chun can lock you down with Hosenka because it shuts down the reflect part of your game. A lot of characters have tools to get around Rose’s fireball in general, reflect however, not so many.

My Rose is good. And of course I’m aware of the fact that you have to “mix it up”. But when you place all the cards on the table, Chun has more tools to beat Rose.

But wouldn’t the chun li WANT to space it far so it hits at the tip so it’s safer? I don’t know, I haven’t dealt with a fireball situation that medium reflect, heavy reflect, focus bdash, jumps, or blocking couldn’t counter. One thing I do look forward to is that **bthrow > j. mk **crossup stuffs her EX reversal AND kills her charge giving you free pressure. If you get off a tick throw, remember to bthrow into the same setup.

I think Rose’s has the slight advantage early on into mid game. But when Chun li has her ultra/super, the match becomes difficult (more so in the boring staring contest kind of way, not the ‘oh fuck yun is retarded’ way). So my game-plan usually revolves around rushing the chun li down, paying attention to charge(like always), and trying to stay real close when I have ultra 2 for shenanigans. If I get throw off, almost 90 percent of the time I am going for the crossup to break her charge unless I know for a fact she isn’t going to reversal me.

[Rose]

That’s the generic Chun. Chun users who can utilize cr.hp x legs as pressure will take advantage of it in this matchup. Chuns walkspeed is fast enough to allow her to simply walk backwards as you land max range cr.mp on block x spiral. She can therefore avoid the HK spiral and whiff punish by just holding back instead of holding downback as most players tend to do when they expect a spiral after max range cr.mp/cr.mk.

Chun players who pick U2 against Rose are seriously out of their mind. By picking U2, you open up alot of options for Rose that would have been limited when picking U1. U1 let’s Chun control the space while limiting Rose. And its reward is far better than Kikosho. Have fun against CH st.mp x U1. U1 is also better for punishing cr.mp/cr.mk x spiral since it’s not a true blockstring. And it’s not like the Chun player will think "Oh I’m not gonna pick U1, I can punish with Hazanshu anyway!. The difference here is the damage output. And if the Chun player is smart, he should go for U1, because I’d rather eat a hazanshu into combo than Hosenka.

From my experience, HP reflect loses to hazanshu most of the time. It’s only useful agaisnt poorly spaced hazanshus at max range which results in Chun landing on the fireball. And about the fireball part - I haven’t said that Rose needs to rely on her fireballs, it’s the fact that Chun can lock you down with Hosenka because it shuts down the reflect part of your game. A lot of characters have tools to get around Rose’s fireball in general, reflect however, not so many.

My Rose is good. And of course I’m aware of the fact that you have to “mix it up”. But when you place all the cards on the table, Chun has more tools to beat Rose.

Thing is, that’s not true. They have equally as many tools.

because if we’re theory fighting, it’s too dangerous to ever hazanshu for chun li because Rose can U1 on reaction or Rose’s U2 mix up would work every single time.

Point being it’s whoever plays the match up better at footsies range; which makes it an even match up because there’s only one position the match should be played.

[Pappioll]

Thing is, that’s not true. They have equally as many tools.

because if we’re theory fighting, it’s too dangerous to ever hazanshu for chun li because Rose can U1 on reaction or Rose’s U2 mix up would work every single time.

Point being it’s whoever plays the match up better at footsies range; which makes it an even match up because there’s only one position the match should be played.

Ok. Are you seriously saying that a Chun with Super and U1 in store is equally as dangerous as a Rose with Super and U1/U2 in store? Even if you have Super in a situation like this you are not even allowed to poke with cr.mp. So you can’t even land your own Super unless you manage to land a CH. Chun’s st.mp becomes even more dangerous when she has Super and you have to watch out for Hazanshu as well since she can combo into it. Chun’s tools are better than Rose’s. The footsie battle may be even because each player can adapt to certain pokes, but all in all, Chun has better stuff.

And why on earth would a Chun player Hazanshu in a stituation where you can punish it with your U1? She doesn’t need godlike reactions to punish reflect or spark, it’s a piece of cake, so that scenario is just useless. @jason87: If Chun hits at max range she can’t combo after a Hazanshu on hit because she’s too far away for either cr.lp or cr.lk to hit. And Chun is always +0 or -1 after a hazanshu, max range or close range doesn’t change anything.

Point being it’s whoever plays the match up better at footsies range; which makes it an even match up because there’s only one position the match should be played.

One position the match should be played? You see, that’s the thing, Chun doesn’t have to play it at one position if she has U1 because she can control space better than Rose.
Everything that I’ve mentioned in my previous post is not theory fighting, it’s actual stuff that happens in matches when fighting a good Chun. However, the match up is even or slightly in Chun’s favour. Not much though. And numbers are pretty much useless anyway. All in all it’s a tricky matchup but I feel like it’s leaning towards Chun in AE.

[jason87]

snip

If she is that close AND is baiting your reflect, you can try instead to adjust the timing of your reflect, or jump, or bdash. You do know if you do it early instead and hit the reflect on the latter frames, you’ll recover in time to block right? When sim’s start to expect me to reflect their fireballs and try to reaction punish, I usually have to adjust my reflect frames so I either recover earlier OR trade hits with their limb w/ my reflect.

[Darmonde]

I think Capcom was going to give Rose all these buffs for 2012, but then they came and looked at all the Rose mainers talking about how good all these matchups are and all the lol easy tools she has.

Thanks a lot guys.

[jason87]

Lol. Imo besides a couple of matches, rose loses to most of the top half of the cast by a half to a full point, e.g. ken akuma chun ryu sim. The top characters I think rose does well against is guile, and after further introspection and how matches have been played out recently, makoto and sagat. That’s it. She also beats characters like thawk and guy but those matches are less of a worry.

[Rose]

Lol. Imo besides a couple of matches, rose loses to most of the top half of the cast by a half to a full point, e.g. ken akuma chun ryu sim. The top characters I think rose does well against is guile, and after further introspection and how matches have been played out recently, makoto and sagat. That’s it. She also beats characters like thawk and guy but those matches are less of a worry.

She doesn’t lose to Ken, Chun, Ryu.

Sim is debatable and Akuma I’ll give you because she does.

Guile isn’t really a top character. But she loses to the top half of the cast meaning Viper, Yang, Yun, and MAYBE Fei Long (not as hard as Yang and Yun).

But the thing is, she doesn’t beat anyone in the top cast except Ryu, Makoto and Sagat; and they’re much less seen…

And if she got Soul Satellite, it would make all these matches even closer to even. and that’s exactly what she needs tbh.

[Jinbolt]

My hardest matchups are:
-Zangief: I know it might sound ridiculous, but that’s the way it is. Too much cross up pressure. And when close to him, most of the time his grab technique beats my attempt of mix ups (I suppose my execution has a big role in this)

-Blanka: Same shit, and to make it worse, those mix ups of his are crazy.

-Seth: Most of the Seth players I play against just keep jumping away with HP and fireball spamming. I always have a hard time trying to get close to them.

My Easiest Matchups:
I don’t really have one, but if I have to give at least one, I would say Vega.

My Favorite Matchup:
-Chun Li: Funest matchup, Chun li is so entertaining to fight, I don’t know how to express it (Strong but not so strong (?)). Even if I get beaten up more than winning, I always enjoy fighting a good Chun Li player. Too bad I have not seen much Chun Li players lately

[Majinhurricane]

chun li no, but ryu no, but ken is dangerous.

[Skatan_Milla]

Rose does not go even with Chun in footsies, she can fight, but it’s definitely in favour of Chun.
Chun has a solid whiffpunish with her st.hp against Rose st.hk, most characters can’t punish that move.
She has a much better sweep than Rose does and she also has st.mp, which is easily one of the top3 pokes in the game, especially when Chun has either u1 for ch st.mp, u1 or super. Even on block st.mp is +2 so Chun keeps the advantage for her next move as well, Rose does not have this.

Chun can punish Rose for throwing fireballs in many ways, u1 or hazanshu on reaction to the fireball OR her reflect, no pre-emptive shit needed.
She can also counter poke her fireball well with her c.hk for a nice knockdown trade.

Once Chun has super she literally locks Rose down to using two moves, st.mk and c.mk, and she’s not even allowed to cancel because it’s possible to react to the cancel with super/u1. So as soon as Chun has super everything she does becomes 10x better than it already was because Rose is reduced to not being able to do anything at all without risking 400dmg.

Same as when Chun has u1, Rose isn’t allowed to throw fireballs, even with FADC, nor is she allowed to refelct Chun’s fireballs unless Chun is pretty close (where Chun is allowed to trade with c.hk or hazanshu on reaction.)

Like Papioll said, Rose doesn’t have an answer to Chun’s c.hp x legs pressure, if Rose ends up in the corner then that’s pretty much GGs that round and Chun is going to build up her meter for a super in next round. So if you end up in the corner in the first round, you’ve pretty much lost round 2 by default since you’re starting with a 400dmg deficit since you will eat that super.

And saying Chun doesn’t have an answer against spiral pressure without ex is just ridiculous, all she has to do is hold back, if Rose goes for another c.mp after blocked spiral it will whiff and Chun can c.hk as whiffpunish for free.

I’m not even going to argue with anyone that says otherwise, these are facts about the matchup.

[XxCarlxX]

I try to avoid playing seths, i can only beat very terrible seths or AI.

[DrGulag]

So far Akuma has been most frustrating, because I don’t have the patience to fight this bastard.

Cammy is also a pain, because it¨s so hard to turn the match around after losing life. Have to use Ultra 1 in this fight (against Yun as well) because I don’t see how U2 is useful. They are just going to rush me down for free.

[Saqs]

Rose makoto is like 7-3 on the ground and 3-7 in oki situations. Rose does come out on top though IMO. Her ground game is too good, more so the range on her normals. And plus, EX ST works in a lot more situations and is actually an advantage over EX DP in this matchup.

My matchup knowledge (and skills for that matter) isn’t the greatest at this point but im not so sure either has the advantage here. If anything I’d say its slight advantage Makoto mainly due to her damage output and U2 which keeps Rose honest from doing pretty much anything offensive once she has it. We can and should rape her on wake up, especially when meterless. We can poke & spark her to keep her at bay and do little bits of damage. But one mistimed poke/spark and it’s time to eat damage and get cornered. Meaty s.MP is not your friend there.