Well, Rose can already be thrown out of EX Spiral right now when you do it on wake up, so I’d rather not be jabbed out of it.
Nothing worse than spending meter on a move that gets stuffed by jabs.
I’d say when your EX gets beaten by raw ultra is a bit worse than a jab combo punish. That’s one reason why I like the current EX spiral, because it tempts the player to use attacks to beat Rose out of it on her wake-up, but by doing so, could give Rose the opportunity to escape, without using bar, and taking minimal, if any, damage.
The prospect of it being throw vulnerable on start up is a real cheap “this is how you counter ex spiral” option. cheap in both game depth and execution. Like nobody is gonna try throwing Rose on her wake up, regardless of what the status is on EX spiral? This just makes every player’s throw game vs Rose too strong.
I agree of course, it’s stupid.
Rose deserves to have a decent reversal when you use meter.
I’m just saying, if I have to choose between these two, that’s what I would go for.
i dont understand this u2 red focus in the corner stuff… i mean you can throw people out of focus. As soon as her orbs align, throw her… i do it when she tries to do that corner crap on me…
Problem is that even lvl2 is unblockable and crumples. It means if rose knocks down, stays just out of throw range and redfocuses, it’s gonna take a lot of self control, a very fast reaction and even some luck to find an opening.
?..So you feel that wakeup os throw tech>being able to EX Spiral any further immediate pressure is worse than having 0 options besides blocking against basically any kind of pressure (outside of throw) on wake-up as it is currently? I could make the same argument on that reasoning that no strike invincible reversal makes every players pressure game too good vs Rose…and strikes, unlike throws cant be teched to extinguish/reset that pressure.
Idk I suppose everyone has things they dislike more, I just feel teching throws is alot easier than having to guess every single knockdown what kind of mixup X character is going to hit me with since there are more variables involved.
If a player has a setup that can hit rose out of her ex spiral, which is 11 frames invulnarable then 2 frames vulnerable, then hits you, then Im sure they have good tech to frametrap your os tech throw as well which is three frames vulnerable immediately and hits you with a hard to follow up attack that does no damage
I see…I still think the character will be much better considering how good her footsies/normals are and how elusive her backdash and slide are making it no easy task to get her down in the first place. Then theres the new wakeup mechanic…
After watching Arturo play in a Loctest “Tournament” to me what stood out the most was Roses damage buffs. She was doing GOOD damage with basic bnbs, looked solid. Although I think itd be kinda cool if her absorb buffed all specials rather than just Spark 
Yes, the buffs are pretty strong. Everyone should be careful when comparing to AE 2012 though, because most other chars are buffed too. Pretty hard to say now where she’ll end up, but at least we get some new things to try out
I just did more testing regarding USF4 EX Spiral and I think I would prefer neither of them for defense
idc if I can backdash throws and such (and its rather pointless in the corner)
This is how I break down USF4 version of EX Spiral as a reversal:
Wins against:
- Strike/Frame traps
- Fireballs
Loses against: - Jumps / Back jumps
- OS
- Blocking
- Throws
- Meaties strikes
I think it would be better if it was slightly more negative on block (ok dont start thinking -28 now), redistribute the stun to other more common moves (spark/ EX Spark/ cr.HP/ fj.HP for instance), have strike/throw invincible, 11F fireball invincibility. imo this would make her more powerful without being able to do anything she can abuse of.
Or even have 13F invincible on strike/throw/fireball at the expense of removing the stun buff and still make it slightly more disadvantageous on block
Don’t get me wrong, I do opt to throw tech/backthrow on defense way more than EX spiral. I don’t like to guess, but at the same time, if I’m getting pressured hard, and I have the read or reaction to an overhead or something vulnerable to EX spiral, and I can get that sudden knockdown to activate U2 for a comeback, I will use EX spiral on defense. My issue is that if it’s going to be throw vulnerable, the opposing player will start thinking that throws, and delayed throwing (to beat out throw tech) are all you need to beat Rose down when you’ve got her down.
I don’t like running away til I end up cornering myself, but this seems a most likely case if I get knocked down and don’t have any better option than throw tech (vulnerable to frame traps) and EX spiral (vulnerable to throws). I’ve actually grown really accustomed to “knowing” when a player’s going to throw me and using EX spiral as a counter. In the event I guessed wrong, if they didn’t just end up blocking after 2 jabs, and did a medium/fierce punch/kick, then EX spiral keeps me covered without having to worry so much about what the other player’s next attack in a sequence is. I just really don’t want the properties changed and don’t care what justifications can be made for the changes. Making EX Spiral throw vulnerable will make it that much less reliable as a reversal.
And actually I just had this thought: Isn’t it possible to do OS throw from a whiffed jab? I’m not sure if I’ve explored this much with my own use of standing OS, but if I can do OS sweep or stand fierce, seems like OS throw could work as well. IF this is possible, then I am that much less convinced that EX spiral should be throw vulnerable. Yep just checking some frame data for Yang cuz his jab’s really good, 4 frame start up, 2 active, 6 recovery = 12 frames total. EX spiral = 13 frame start up. Meaning that Yang recovers from a whiffed jab 1 frame faster than EX spiral will come out. I think the only solution Capcom could make that I’d be fine with is if EX spiral didn’t take 13 frames to come out. Cuz having it fully strike invincible won’t save her ass any more than how it is now.
I did make a post on the unity thread to make ex spiral be throw invincible and in return increase the recovery about 3-4 frames. Ex spiral is somewhat of a decent anti air if you time it too.
Has anyone herd if rose got anyframe data changes on her normals? She been getting a lot of positive buzz but havent seen anything new execpt tge things that were mention already. So just thought maybe she got better frames or sonething thats harder to see from just looking.
They haven’t changed any of her frame data as far as I know. If they did I’m sure they’d have wrote it in the change list.
Anyway, the changes are really good but I’m sad that they didn’t increase ex soul throw’s invincibility. It’s still a useless move for the most part.
EX version is very good imo, it is sure to hit if you time it right and does a lot of damage. The normal versions are useless
It kind of sucks, i think they could have done more but combofiend pretty much said she completed for ultra. Just some small stuff that could have made a nice difference
I don’t understand how she is completed for ultra if they are giving others more changes. bleh… at least we got almost all buffs.
Soul Satellite (UC1) command input changed to 214214+KKK; recovery increased from 2F to 4F
Wouldn’t this affect Rose’s knockdown shenanigans? " untechable knockdown instant cr lk Ultra 2 lp DP or mp DP?
yes, it’s gonna affect those. but shenanigans are what they are, and you’ll just need to tweak them a bit.
in this case, on a untechable knockdown you’ll need to check if the guy tried and succeeded a delayed wake-up, and do the soulthrow with or without c.lk depending on it.
Yeah, all her combos being 1 frame link is pretty annoying, especially with her low damage. It’d be nice if cr.lk and cl.mk or mp was +5 on hit. They can lower cr.hp’s startup to 6 to balance it. I don’t find it THAT useful anyway, anti airs like Gouken’s cr.hp are better imo because of their forward hitbox. Not many people jump on your face outside safejumps.
Oh and nothing is more annoying than to lose to a jump attack with ex soul throw, especially Akuma’s dive kick. I got the read, I should be rewarded. 7 frame invincibility for that move is pretty low.