EX spiral: Startup 13F, 11F invincibility for strike/fireball/throw
Thissssss. That’s how EX spiral currently is, right? If EX Spiral as a reversal gets beaten by throw, then Rose’s “reversal game” would become so much weaker. I’m the kind of player who doesn’t even mind burning 3 bar to stay safe on blocked EX spiral, but if I’m up against somebody who wants to test my throw tech ability, then EX spiral is no longer an option. Like at all. I might as well just turtle up and take the throws.
Aside from all the reverse-nerfs happening to Rose (cuz aside from spiral damage increased, weren’t those numbers the damage she was at in vanilla?) I’d absolutely looove it if they made her close MK a command normal, and not restricted by proximity to the other character. Too many times have I read a player going for SPD, and I’m just right out of range to counter it and get far MK instead.
But yeah, I’m overall stoked about these changes. LK spiral range buffed, and spark frames reduced are gonna help a lot.
However, does anybody know if LK spiral from max range c.MP, or c.MK is less safe on block due to the range increase?
^and also this could reduce the likeliness of the spiral just straight up whiffing on account of c.MP xx spiral not being a block string, and people can just walk away to make it whiff.
Maybe I’m looking at this the wrong way but wouldn’t the 13 frame start up and 13 frame invincibility better since its a sure counter to strikes on wakeup?
I know she could still be meatied but…it should be more difficult. That makes for less of a guessing game(for rose) on wake up wouldn’t? Idk, guess i feel like throws can be dealt with a bit easier am i wrong?
I dunno what was up with the minor U2 nerf, seems pretty arbitrary to me. It wasn’t a startup nerf so it doesn’t seem like a huge deal. Might effect it’s usefulness as an anti-air some I guess and mess with some of the wakeup mixups, but those are all out the window anyways.
I’m worried about the fact that it becomes throwable. The reversal; to me was like a SRK: reversal anything they try, and if they block get punished for your bad read. It did have some disadvantages though:
13 frames is a very long startup that can be baited with quick meaty attacks
it could be knocked out or thrown out of at 11th frame onwards
The last issue was annoying to me, but I never faced players that did this on purpose. It was rather random, they got lucky and I didnt. I would say the chance is below 20% for me to lose my reversal when they were indeed attacking.
Now they will fix the latter, but you will lose to throws completely. Seeing that the chance of a throw, when they decide to attack and so my reversal would hit is above 20%, I’d say the change is worse. Because now you have to tech or backdash a throw, and reversal attacks (if they meatie and frametrap correctly).
Using this math, an attacker should be throw heavy on wakeup as the risk for him to get hurt is really low. You may backdash, you may tech, but you cant reversal him. One he establishes this he can then go for frametraps or option selects, or even both if he has that tech.
Only U1 would seem to be a counter then, unless they make one of her attacks throw invincible. Perhaps SC.MK is an option but a normal is hard to time as reversal. Why not make reflect unthroable?
well, reversal ex spiral has never really worked against careful people.
i think it’s about time people realize ex spiral is a huge gamble, not an actual reasonable choice… it has been so for 4 years.
I’d rather have the new one. It’s better used as a tool for interrupting block strings or going through attacks then using on wakeup, and this will improve it there. I’d be more than happy to have people thinking of trying to throw Rose on wakeup as well, since you can’t punish her backdash if you try that.
Also depending how much they improved the range of lk spiral, I think that’s going to be a bigger buff than just giving her a reliable hit confirm, it should help in footsies and buffered normal cancels a LOT as well hopefully.
The new EX Soul Spiral is really good and I have a few notes about the new Soul Satellite as well that I posted in the facebook group that I’m about to post here.
"Before you guys panic about the soul satellite “nerf” let me explain it. It’s one of those things combo fiend told me was going to happen.
Increased recovery by 2 frames refers to the ability to move and block after the activation of soul satellite. This means that when you activate soul satellite, you could block and move before the orbs even become active. Soul satellite is a hella unique ultra that has stupid properties that follow it’s own set of rules because it was never meant to even have recovery (ie: it’s supposed to work like it did in Super). Therefore, in ae2012, you can activate soul satellites and there were always instances where you kept your orbs even if you got hit and instances where you were able to block right away. That’s because soul satellite is 5f start up until active, but only has two recovery frames ( which is why you can backdash throws and such if you are right next to their face). It’s adding two recovery frames to make it a 5f start up with a 4 frame recovery.
This is not gonna hinder how you use soul satellite in any way. You rarely ever activate it in front of your opponents face or on wakeup. Take the “nerf” with all the 700 buffs Rose got and she’s still better and it’s barely a nerf at all.
Have fun."
Rose is really good in this version, don’t worry!!!
Yeah I figured that had something to do with the bug where she would get hit and keep the orbs, had that happen several times to me. Hows the new lk. spiral? Does cr. mp xx lk. spiral pretty much always hit now?
Do people not realize that Rose has always been able to use EX Spiral through fireballs? Just have to time it proper. And I still stand by the opinion that I’d prefer EX Spiral remaining 13 frame start up and 11 frames fully invincible. I already use EX spiral in footsies, reactionary, or timed read. Having EX Spiral fully invincible til start up isn’t going to change this utility.
And I actually respect players when they beat out my EX Spiral as a reversal because it shows they’re either using standing option selects, or at least have an awareness toward which of their characters normals are good to use in a sequence vs Rose on her wake up, when they don’t want to go in for a throw. Even just staggered jabs are strong vs Rose’s wake up. I don’t think 2 extra frames of strike invincibility will do anything to counter that. It definitely won’t have any effect toward how unsafe it is when blocked and you don’t have the meter to FADC.
I just don’t want Rose to fall in line with the other characters I use that have bad/specific reversals such as Yang’s EX teleport or Fuerte’s EX Run. 13 frames of invincibility but entirely throw vulnerable EX Spiral seems like a buff to Rose’s neutral game, where I really don’t think she needs any more buffs; already having some of the best normals in the game.
