I think they changed the positioning because the orbs used to suffocate rose.
Maybe none of them is too good, but all of them together… if I list all these buffs, Rose becomes the most buffed character, more than Oni, Gouken, dudley, Hawk or dee jay.
Even more, her buffs are really strong - all are frame data changes and hitboxes - including 4 buffs for her normals.
This is way too much. I’m all for making her a strong character, but let’s not go overboard.
I say:
- Ultra 1: reduce the start up with 2 frames (10)
- Soul Spark: - L: reduce recovery with 3 frames (49)
- Soul Throw: Hurtbox around hand eliminated
- Soul throw can no longer be canceled from any normal move.
- EX Soul Spiral: eliminate the 2 frames between the invincibility frames and active frames
- cr. HK: reduce the start up with 1 frame (8)
- cl.MK: Extended hitbox downward
I think that should be enough.
Deejay has a significant amount of buffs in that list.
Any other rose player have anything that they would think that would help rose?
Yes, but Dee jay is regarded weaker than Rose.
I would also like for Soul Throw not to be canceled by any normals but we can’t ask that: As much as it would be beneficial for us, we are asking to make Rose easy mode. It’s as if we would be Makoto and ask that fukiage not be cancelable from any normals. I don’t think that’s fair. It would also means that Capcom has to rework how they group each character moves:
I not sure if it would fix it but…maybe putting soul throw’s last input as down+forward and make it “strict” instead of “lenient” might fix this as shown here:
I don’t know if regarding Dee Jay being weaker than Rose is the right answer. While he might be weaker than Rose, he has the tools to deal with a lot of Rose’s bad matchups like Cammy / Rufus / Vega / Sagat / Yang. It’s also another reason why I think we should MOSTLY aim at buffing the characters current strength and make them excel at what they’re good for instead of making them “okay” all around. If they are a jack of all trades, they can still receive as many buffs as intended, but the impact of it should be very minimal
If we restore some of rose’s normals from super, it wont be such a game changing affect. Rose does well in the footsies department. I think it is fair to give her some help with some of her normals that were nerfed to AE 2011. I think i’ll find a pc version of this game to buy.
I agree with the fact that if she got any normals nerfed in terms of frame / hitbox and hurtbox it should be undone. Her sweep doesn’t need to be -3 like in vanilla tho
*- Ultra 1: reduce the start up with 2 frames (10)
- Soul Spark: - L: reduce recovery with 3 frames (49)
- Soul Throw: Hurtbox around hand eliminated
- EX Soul Spiral: eliminate the 2 frames between the invincibility frames and active frames
- cr. HK: reduce the start up with 1 frame (8)
- cl.MK: Extended hitbox downward*
- cr.mp: reverted back to super (???) something is just not right about it…
- f.st.mk: reverted back to super
I think thats all she got taken away from super. Was there any changes to rose from vanilla?
**
Her nerfs/buffs through the serie since vanilla
Vanilla -> Super
Soul Piede’s recovery was nerfed so she was -5/-1 in Super
Sweep Recovery 19F->26F (frame adv on block = -3F -> -10F on block)
Far Standing HP active frame 3->5 but (frame adv on block/hit= -3/+1 to -5/-1)
Crouching LP damage 40->20
Crouching HP damage 90->100 startup 6F->5F
EX Soul Spark 65/65->30/70 Recovery 54->48 (frame adv on block/hit -6/-2 -> 0/+4)
Soul Throw (all versions) damage 140 -> 160
Super -> AE
Soul Throw (all versions) Throw range: 0.4 -> 0.55
According to images -> Cr.mp got nerfed
According to images -> Far st.mk got nerfed
Soul Spark meter gain nerf
Soul Satellite startup 5F->7F invincibility frames 5F -> 0F
Super trap removed
AE -> AE2012
Soul Piede is back from being -5/-1 to -1/+3 like it was in vanilla
Soul Spark meter gainis back to how it was
Soul Satellite glitch fixed startup is back from 7F to 5F invincibility frames 0F -> 2F starting on 2nd frame
CL.MK frame advantage on hit +3 -> +4
EX Spiral damage 100 -> 120
EX Reflect projectile invincible 0F -> 7F projectile hitbox appears on 5F
Crouching MK glitch fix
Number of nerfs:11
Number of buffs: 10
Number of thing reverted back: 2 1/2 (since U2 is not back like in Super ? lol)
Number of fixed glitch: 2
I think that’s pretty much it
Soul Throw cancels kill me. For those of us that are less stick experienced (ssfiv ae is the first fg i’ve dived deep into), it’s the most annoying thing. But I’d be happiest if the input was simply stricter or ST had less priority of what comes out… accessibility is a worthy point isn’t it?
That’s my only wish… followed by juggle U1 (but less damage if necessary)…
Sweep Recovery 19F->26F (frame adv on block = -3F -> -10F on block)
Crouching LP damage 40->20
According to images -> Cr.mp got nerfed
According to images -> Far st.mk got nerfed
I’d like these reverted.
when I have the time I will try to make “this” Rose and see how it turns out. Might try to do it with the other characters too (but it requires…lots of time so we’ll see >_>)
I didnt know her bnb did about 200 or more in vanilla…
the worst thing is that 200 bnbs in vanilla was still shitty damage 
From all of the suggestions that we have for Rose and since apparently all of our buffs are more than deejays. I made a list of 9 since he has 11 changes and took 3 changes from each of ours lists and put them together.
*EX Spiral: 11f ->14f invincibility, both throw invincible and strike invincible.xx
*Focus Attack: Slightly larger horizontal hitbox; level 1 blocked FA into forward dash -2 on block (more hitstun)xx
*cr. fierce, slightly larger horizontal hitbox.
*Soul Throw: Hurtbox around hand eliminatedxx
*Ultra 1: reduce the start up with 2 frames (10)
*- Soul Spark: - L: reduce recovery with 3 frames (49), L: +3 block/hitstun (-9/-5)
*Crouching LP damage 20->40xx
*cr.lk reduced by 1 frame
*cr.mp hurtbox moved back like in super
From all of the suggestions that we have for Rose and since apparently all of our buffs are more than deejays. I made a list of 9 since he has 11 changes and took 3 changes from each of ours lists and put them together.
*EX Spiral: 11f ->14f invincibility, both throw invincible and strike invincible.xx
*Focus Attack: Slightly larger horizontal hitbox; level 1 blocked FA into forward dash -2 on block (more hitstun)xx
*cr. fierce, slightly larger horizontal hitbox.
*Soul Throw: Hurtbox around hand eliminatedxx
*Ultra 1: reduce the start up with 2 frames (10)
*- Soul Spark: - L: reduce recovery with 3 frames (49), L: +3 block/hitstun (-9/-5)
*Crouching LP damage 20->40xx
*cr.lk reduced by 1 frame
*cr.mp hurtbox moved back like in super
Now watch this crap post 4 times because of the effing error srk gives.
From the tests I did it would be more balanced if she only had her startup reduced to 11F. The biggest problem with 14F is that she passes by fireballs WAYYYY to easily. She would have the best counter for fireballs in the game for sure. Matching the startup with the 11F of invincibility will maybe make her start faster but at least she can’t bypass projectiles like she didn’t care.
This can be done by 2 ways: either add cancelable frames in her dash or speed up the animation of her dash. How larger do you think the hitbox should be ? (Right now I made it so that it almost near the end of her scarf)
How big ? So it matches the hurtbox ?
I did some test based on some stuff that has been said + on some stuff that I think would make Rose better. I won’t list a specific number of things I want her to have. Just give a general insight on the purpose of the buff.
-
EX Soul Spiral: -2F on startup. Matches the 11F invincibility
-> There were 2 solutions to this : Either extend the invinbility by 2F, or reduce the startup frames by 2. Having more invincibility = bypass fireballs way to easily. She would arguably have the best anti-projectile move of the game. The only thing that could maybe stop her would be slow projectiles. I opted for less startup so that it’s more difficult to OS + hits earlier so it’s a better reversal. -
Soul Satellite: **The point of buffing the ultra was to add a “fear” factor to it. People don’t really care about getting hit for 120 damage and just poke Rose so they can get a chance of removing the orbs from her and keep pressure. To this I added these:
- Add +3 block/hit stun
** Adding grounded block/hit stun on Ultra 2 allows Rose to combo easier into it if the opponent tries to poke Rose out of her ultra.** - Add +25 stun
** Adding +25 stun on each orb will make Rose stronger overall without changing any matchup or her gameplay.**
- Add +3 block/hit stun
-
Cl.MK: move the hitbox downward so it can connect on all characters. I personally think it should hit everyone that tries to cr.tech her
-
Far st.HP: decrease hurtbox around head so it can properly AA. IMO trades too much when used as a far AA
-
Cr.LK: New combo possibilities that don’t go overboard, can cr.tech better,
-** Illusion Spark**: reduce the start up with 2 frames : Now actually possible to grab your opponent when the fireball is right in the middle between you and the opponent. New combo founded: on crouching akuma: cr.mk xx EX spark, U1 (499 damage)
- Focus Attack: increase range: made it a bit larger horizontally because she doesn’t move when she does a focus attack. So I provided her more range
If we make Ex soul spiral 11 frames, then it better hell be 12f on inv.
Making ex spiral that fast would however come up with new combo opportunities of some of our normals that do less hit stun. I don’t want to make roses forward dash faster for the fact that I think it should be unique to Chun li, but she should definitely not be -5 and punishable :/.
Cr fierce slightly bigger horizontally so that it encompasses the whole scarf and it would hit people normal jumping in there or that combo on the crouching Akuma :/.
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That would be lovely lol.
Could she also get her 20 damage back from vanilla for her cr.lp? I’m pretty sure in the long run that would be very helpful in combos.