Roll Cancel is Useless?

You two piss me off. Shin, pelase be shorter.

What piss me off is that everytime I write I must explain it two or three times because you dont understand.

Shin: If you really performed all that RC you just said, you wouldnt loose.
If it is that me on the video, you shold won. But you were not even a pleasant challenge.

I said Obot64 dont win the EVOs and others (I never heard), but knows a lot about the game, just like you. And it is not all that is needed to win.

You dont play for just 2 or 3 months. But if you want to say that, I consider you like that, practice more then come to me again.

Kuwabara, about the control, I know, I dont like that control too. About moves that cant be punishable without RC, Ive already wrote. The DC/PS2 adaptor was already shipped for me, I hope, you can then play in your favorite pad.

I know diferent characters have diferent Roll lenghts. And what?

Remeber: One frame in a 60 frames per second game is 1,6666… seconds/100 (cs) lenght, two is about 3cs, 4 frames are about 6cs. So, 4 frames (that is not even 1/10 second, it is almost 1/20 of a second) may not save you even with torpedos, so, thats why Im sayig that it is good as defense, you have that invencibility with a security window. If you perform a torped and I do a back jump, Ill hit you. If I were closer, I would just guard. So, how do you use this as a attack unless I use a fireball? There are other ways, I said it is like parry: Most of you RC through fireballs. Most of you (me, I confess) cant parry Chun-lis Super Art 2.

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NOTE:
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6 frames are 1/10 second-> 1 second = 100centiseconds it means that we have 60 frames in 100centiseconds, so, 6 frames in 10 centiseconds (= 1/10 second)

About the question in the first page: It is needed to have time to roll to perform a roll cancel? I already said that yes, and now Ill explain why much people may think no: It is because of the “RETINAL PERSISTANCE”, a natural phenomena,it is the time between what you see (the light that reach your retina) and what is sent to your brain before being “transformed” into an image. It have a window of 1/10 second and 1/17 second, variations among people. So, you couldnt be capable to see something between less than 3 to 6 frames. I said you COULDNT, it is because you will propably not see less than 6 frames, because the NTSC TVS (not HDTV and LCD screens, and others with 100 frames/second) tranfers the image with a speed of 30 frames per second (29,97 if you want the exact number), it means that the TV will just disapear with some frames, better, half of the frames, making the game runs at 30 frames/second. The 100 HZ TV shows the field twice.
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What I said, hear from me, Ill tell it here.

I didnt say that RC is useless unless it is for Defense, I said it is MOST and well used for defense (counter attack is a defense, if it was not, you should be attacking, and if you perform a RC attacking, the opponent will guard, for example: I play Tae-Kwon Do for 6 years and this definition is considered for us a defense, if you are waiting for a kick, you are on defense, depending on the attack you do a counter-attack, when you are hiting two, three or four kicks, you are attacking, there is no way back or counter attack during attacks). I said Torpedos are the most used in attacks (remeber the definitions). Of course power tackle and that rocks movement are torpedos-like.

Kens funky kick, because of his short hitbox, is most used in defense, if Shin had really performed that RC kick, it should be like a anti-air (a defensive movement). I ask what somebody already asked in this topic: Why not a Shoryuken instead of this kick?

Shin and Kuwabara: What I want to say, just let me say, ok? Dont talk for me.

And one more thing: Dont make me bored.

wow

All 3 of you are idiots, shin and kuwabara need to stop whining about how azis doesn’t think RC is good/doesn’t use it/etc. Just fucking learn to fight against his Vega and win, he said before he beat you 10-0, 10-2 – you can’t argue with anything someone says if HE IS RAPING YOU IN GAME. Even if he’s wrong about shit (which he is), just ignore what he says and find a way to win.

Azis, what the fuck is this? :

It doesn’t fucking matter if you see the roll or not before you cancel it, no one does the roll and the special seperately and relies on that. Everyone I know who can RC consistently does it through execution, you know… USING YOUR HANDS. You don’t even need to look at the TV to RC, you’re making it way too fucking complex.

And if you did know why people use it (and can do it, and weren’t a vega scrub), you would realize that Vega has one of the best RCs in game, and it’s not for defense or counter-attack or any of that shit. RC B,f+HP chips, is safe after being blocked, and pushes your enemy to the corner. That’s a fucking offensive maneuver, same as ken’s RC hcf+LK, iori RC qcb+HP, etc etc etc.

You motherfuckers are sitting here complaining that he has no advanced tactics and all he does is roll->throw and airguard->throw. Learn to tech throws and get the sand out of your vaginas.

Humpf…

Easy, my friend, easy…

By the way, thanks. I dont want to arguee anymore with theese two, everytime they come to me attacking together, like wife and husband, I dont know why, and Shin must of times with offenses.

My Vega is tottaly diferent form Roll and Throw, airguard->throw. I think they are so stupid that it is all they see in my game. If all I do is this stuff, the score wouldnt be so frustrating for them. By the way, Shin rolls and throw a lot.

My advanced tatics are most MIND GAMES.

That stuff about frames I said because some people think you dont need to roll then cancel (almost together), or wake up and roll, you cant see sometimes. And Shin and Kuwabara lives complaining under a history about diferences between MVC2 for Dreamcast and for PS2. There is a history, I dont know if it is true or not, that PS2 version have 1 frame of diference, one more frame. They couldnt explain if it is in the game FPS (so it runs under 61 frames/second) or the characters movement. By the way, they complain because Im better on PS2, and they use as crutches this ONE FRAME. They think the human eye are capable to see that one frame. But it is impossible.

One more thing: I do RCs, In the right time.

I think Shin was trying to put this link for you, where Justin Wong punishes Manuel, instead of being punished:

http://www.zachd.com/mvc2/mwc/Manuel%20vs%20Justin%20W.mpg

So, that is truly my Vega!

it’s not that we CAN’T see, it’s that you have 1 more frame to MASH on the assists. We all know that 1 frame is a BIG diference (see all the 1 frame link discussion on “hardest things to do”).
I still think your game relies on throwing. You should combo you Red Impact, instead of using it only for AA

that’s all I wanted to read. Thank you

by the way, it’s impossible to tech throw on reaction! I only tech throw when I also want to throw. It’s not like Tekken or KoF, that you can see a minimal frame to escape

Ineed Wongs Vega ing, but what I sayd and u neither tryed to read is that ur vega is not even 1/5 of wongs. U say u dont RC, but u do massive damage punnition… Throw is that dangerous??? u dont even do a little ocmbo with vega… He saying so prouly thinking I just said that Wongs vega were like his… how ignorance…

just say one thing bout frames, u look so knowledgeble… or faking so… but u know that magnetos c.lk is 1 frame? sents s.lk is 2 frames if i remember… now tell me… they have the same priorities? they dont have diference? they r the same thing?.. brainless…

And Human Eye cant catch one frame???Really??? u know that tastumaki hk of sakura can be linked with s.lp and the time to do that is only 1 frame??? or e.hondas slaps.mp can be linked with c.hp but u can only do it in one frame??? its really impossible to a human eye? so… those ppl who do it in champs or videos r what? cyborgs?

U saying that cause u r stuped or… or what? Whats the mather knowing the advenced tecnic if u dont got ecperience? I dont win vs u only cause experience, cause ur tecnic is just… too… no wrd to describe… such lower stuff…

Really? u really know? then why u say thats is possible to roll with everyone and punish bether then roll cancel? most of then with neither finish the roll when the attacer ends the previows attack…

u saying that cause u want to say that I will never win too or something like that? just rememberwhat rhappened in marvel 2… only thing I have to say…

lets ty to be short, yes… kens kick is short box and that situation really is a defensive, BUT and when u were at corner? when u tryed to attack with sagat or blanka or even vega, u most of times were countered ith kens kick. U didnt ealise or u r blind? They were roll cancel…

why not shoryuken? lets see… shoryuken can be defended in certain motion cause can be treated as air attack, to hit in a motion that vega cant defend have to wait until is possible to get the first hit of the Shoryuken, but that motion, vega would hit first a little frames ago… simple… or if u want to do RC shoryuken… go ahead… ops… sorry… Rc… u cant do it…

[quote]
One more thing: I do RCs, In the right time.
[/uote] say jsut one char that u r capable of doing? and course… if u do in a reall battle… just say or u just lieng as usual?

I will finish here cause some other things sayd by Azis r too… well… not deser an answer… stay like that…

english

do you speak it?

Well, sonic boom is not a stationary fb because it moves across the screen. Let me tell you that standard hadukens, repukens, and sonic booms are moving fb’s. Stationary fb’s are something like Sim’s yoga-flame: it stays around one area. Hell, http://www.sonichurricane.com/articles/cvs2fb.html has info on it if you want more detail.

Anyway, I was thinking that Sim’s rc yoga-flame mabye the best jump-in stopper due to the large area it covers. Unless it gets parried… I have to research the damage.

LOL!!! I told him it was way difficult to understand due to many little mistakes

How about Raiden’s spit? it has a good recovery

Oh…

Sorry, I posted before I read thoroughly.

Anyway, I think either RC Yoga Flame, the up one or the ground one, are both terrible anti-airs. I don’t even need to look at any frame data and I can already see they take an extremely long time before they hit, and plus they only work at a single very specific angle as well. Dhalsim already has his three frame b+MP and lighting fools up with his Level 3 only super as anti-air is one of the most satisfying things you can do anyway.

The whole point of doing an RC is to counter something on reaction. To use the Yoga Up Flame as anti-air, you need to totally anticipate and guess. No point RCing it then, because by the time the opponent reaches you, your invincibilty will have worn off already.

Dumbass, if you combo RED IMPACT it will loose about 50% of its damage, with the risk of missing it.

Take it from me, if you do so, you will have no excellent anti-air as RED Impact. So you will no be able to stop some Rushdown attackers.
If you want a combo, empty jump, c.lk, s.lk -> RED impact. Ok? You can do it with Roling cristal too.

Shin: Magnetos c.lk do not have 1 frame. Sentinel s.lk do not have 2 frames. Ill get the frame data for you. By the way, if Magnetos c.lk is 1 frame, you could hit ryu 29 times with this kick when he do a s.HP. If magneto c.lk have only one animation frame, it does not have only one DURATION frame. You have start-up, the hit frame, recovery frames. In MVC2, you dont have the recovery frames to combo it with a LP or LP again (the mp and mk).

But I will not arguee with you, you look like you didnt understand. But Ill put it to you clear as cristal in portuguese, that the human eye is not capable to see one frame in a game of 60 frames/s = 1,6 centiseconds. Just get your watch chronometer, and then start and try to stop it in 00:00 01 (1 centisecond). Or 00:00 016 (16 miliseconds)

Now, get out of my way, WORMS!

YOU are a dumbass. You as always talk without thinking before. I just tested myself:
C-Vega-2 vs A-Kyo-2
Red impact: 6084
d+mk xx RI: 6484
d+lk, s.lp xx RI : 6483
the last one was somewhat difficult to do.

http://www.video-opera.com/features/mvc2/mvc2-joo.php

see the frame data.
mag d.lk = 1 frame
sent s.lk = 5 frames

it means the startup not that he will start/hit/recover in 1 frame you BAKA!!!

What? whos the DUMBASS, DUMBASS?? R.Impact alone (assuming Vega-2 C-Grove vs Ryu-2 A-Grove) do 5785 of damage, the combo combo c.mk xxRed Impact do 6517 and c.lk, c.lp XX R.Impact DO like 6516 Damage(50%??? WHERE??? I CANT SEE??? WHERE IS IT??AM I BLIND???) or should I try to do j.hk,c.k,c.lp XX R.Impact that cause 7562 damage… AGAIN… WHERE IS THE 50% DUMBASS??? The risk of missing is now ur poor combobillity… dont blame the combo… blame urself…

Now I dont get it… first u assume that u play a really mind game and think every move and what ever… then u say that u use vs rush down? Not is a bad thing to do… but… should be that one… or u think throw is a lot bether damage? U say that combo the rolling attack is a good thing, actually it is… but u do?

U really…really have a problem in ur mind… I NEVER said that was Duration frame, if it was magneto could never have that kind of kick… I thought that u wouldnt be so dump… not at this rate… but u know I made a mistake, I forgot that sent kick is 5 frames… not 2… anyway… think a move with 1 frame of hitting is the same thing as one of 3 for exemple? that shows u dont know nothing… U dont know the diference that make little frames cause ur game is only mash stuff ang good… if u win like that, good Just shut up and stop trying to explain something u dont understand!

its impossible to hit the chronometer in 00:00:01 Cause Whe r not computer, we r physical beeing, We do not imagine the chronometer stoping, We hit it to stop, when ur brain send the information, The chronometer already changed, and ur finger cannot hit it even if u dont think … when I was young I could hit 00:00:05… so… if have someone that can do 00:00:03 its will be really something…(considering that ons make huge diference). Again u CAN see that frame again cause PPl do combos with 1 frame of linker… if u doubt u can look in this forum, u will find a lot of 1 frame linkers, most of then cause they practice that timing… but that 1 frame of diference exist, if u cant see it cause u cant only that, and not that anybody can do or see… it just U CANT.

Now u Shut Up… cause ur only talk lies and imagined things… its fact u actually dont talk from facts… u just wonder and say… and when u see that u were rong u saty quiet bout that thing maybe cause u ashamed that discoveredother of ur lies…

PS: vkuwabara… dont act cool ok?.. “I told him”… ha…

You post too much, you pathetic fool.

Come to me, prove that my tatics are that basic, just win, or get lost.

This poor score of 10 x 2 vs Shin and 10 x 0 vs Kuwabara is no good sign for you…

If you could only reach the score of 10 x 5, for godness sake, 5, only 5 wins, I think I should start to respect you two as players, not only somebody that just talk and dont know how to do. There is no respect for you yet, sorry.

With all this combos and RCs, you DO still have much to learn.

About the frame, Ill post in portuguese for you understand. With scientific proofs and references.

For me, you two are weak.

Now, get out of my way, worms!

Poor insect… talking all big only bout that score, U did the same in Marvel 2, that proves the shit person u were, when I start to make u cry like a baby I never make any mention that even u were worst then me, even like that u come all happy cause u got a score like that only cause I started to get seriou in this game a short time ago…

Well… I’m right again… come again saying “you pathetic fool” “get out of my way, worms!” … this is clearly a dump defensive mode of someone who lost in words… just pathetic… just tell since when u started to play? 3 years ago? more time? Just want to know… to know in how much time I get bether then u… if only 1/2 of ur time… or 1/4… dont know… marvel I Think it was 20% of ur time I belive… maybe I’m wrong… anyway… again… I have facts… past facts that can easyly bercame true… u have the fact now, u win vs me… but… it will be valuable until…??? I will just say… grab in that, just be pleased that u win 10x2, I will be gracefully… I didnt sayd that in marvel… not even once… but here the truth… in arcade… a really good arcade(u withouth ur short cuts and beeing in PS2 with plus 1 frame) u r no match vs me… pathetic fool… worm…

Azis, get a team without your 3 main characters and play against me, just like I did. I wanna see if you can win

Lol… I dont think so … I think he wil chicken… like the time when we were in his house… he fully negated to play in Dreamcast, and there(with a good arcade control) u could show ur performance… but… anyway… I ereally doubt that he chalenge u in dreamcast… without blanka/vega/sagat much less…

Magneto c.lk has one frame start, and thats common knowledge. spirals teleport or Sentinel unfly out of AHVB have both 1 frame each, and some people can do it easily. It doesnt matter what your eyes are, or your ears. What matters is that you get used to the timing.
If you try to stop a clock at 0,000 whatever, youll be able to do it often if you practice it enough. You will not react to what your eyes see, but you will learn the timing where you can press the button and get it right by anticipation. if you doi always counting back from ten, you probably wont even need to look at the watch after a while.
Fighting game are more about anticipation then reaction,m and missing frames can change a lot of some games (play on MAME on some game that youre really good and youll see it).

wtf? I thought this was supposed to be about roll cancel and if its useful or not.

azis u said that if u roll cancel that means u have time to roll or sum shit like that?

to do roll cancel u have to tap roll while doing the move! so the out come would be the same except u have some invincibilty so u wont get counterd or punished.

if u do a red impact on wake up and im doing RC elec u would get hit.
but if I didnt roll cancel I would get hit. see the diff?

u lose a special and get hurt.

and if u did jump in with vega Id just s.hk with rock cuz theres no guarding from that… and I could switch up with counter.

you cant honestly say ur vega is the best becuz ur on C-groove. but I can see why cuz ur Sagat needs it.

but dont just go around saying ur the best… just cuz uve beaten 2 newbs. Id like to hear ur stories against ppl who can actually RC constantly or even JD or agaisnt an RC vega

we are all 3 newbs here