There’s multiple solutions to this too. The most clunky is to reduce startup time when a move is input during blockstun/wakeup/comboed/whatever. Another is to purposefully design moves in the first place that are meant to be used as reversals and still have the traditional quick startup even as a single button.
Traditional reversals on a single button would make the game too reaction-based. Think of how much easier it is to react to offense with a flash kick when you have charge than it is to react with a shoryuken; now imagine being able to do that with no charge… yeah.
The solution I had seen speculated as being a thing that Rising Thunder might do would be to make it work vaguely like Boxer’s turn-around-punch – mandate that the button be held for 10 frames, not allow the player to do move or do any moves during that time, and the special comes out on negative edge. Based on what has been said about cool-downs, though, I’m pretty sure that solution won’t be used.
So far the only chargeable move I’ve seen in the game is Talos’ SPD. It seems holding down the special button grants you armor. I think I saw another variant of his SPD that gains a suction effect when you charge it.
some of these example just don’t hold water to the argument, we have no idea how Rising thunder rules operate. We can;t just assume its like SF2. KoF, Persona, or ect.
How else is it going to work? There’s no way moves won’t have startup frames, active frames, and recovery frames.
I guess it could be the case that no moves have invincible startup, but holy damn is pressure going to be scary in that case.
So, this game.
Any news about the alpha ? Didn’t get an email.
Let me just clarify one thing here: my prior RTS experience didn’t count for jack here. My old game gave you the resources to build a new unit approximately every 60 seconds. Considering how macro-heavy SC2 is, whatever useful knowledge I had previously got drowned out. Map awareness was probably the only skill that transferred between the games.
The approach I took to SC2 was one I got from a friend who was a very experienced WC3-player: pick a reasonably safe build to avoid cheese, make sure to scout and have detectors, don’t ever float resources, and macro harder than the other guy. It might be possible that this approach wouldn’t even get me out of Bronze League anymore, and that I’d have to grind out every timing in my build to even stand a chance of getting a single game, but somehow I doubt it.
And, of course, this is only talking about Blizzard RTSes. It’s quite possible that something like CnC requires very heavy training mode investments before there’s even any point in trying to play – I haven’t played them, so I don’t know – but I know for a fact that Relic RTSes don’t focus so much on macromanagement that you actually need to practice build orders.
In contrast, in 99% of fighting games you need a functional BnB to start out, and that’s probably going to take you an hour or two of training mode before you even play a match, depending on the game. And that’s what scares people away, not the prospect of having to do training mode at some point in time.
Doing DP over and over with Ken is surprisingly effective even today, actually.
ANd how is Pressure going to be scary in that case? Your still going by some pretense which is difficult at this point since we still know so little.
We just have to play the wait and see game.
So from what I’ve read, this game takes a single input in order to perform a special move? That seems ridiculously unfulfilling I doubt I’d find any enjoyment from playing it now, quite the hype killer.
I have to at least feel even the slightest bit of technicality when playing, y’know? If it’s just a button per move then where is my feeling of satisfaction for landing X combo, or performing X move? That just removes that feeling entirely. I LOVE ease of access, SFIV is tedious with it’s 1fs, but having motion attacks and inputs for specials at least made me interact with the game and really feel good about landing everything. If you turn it into single button inputs it really detracts from how good a fighter can feel when you perform that combo you were making in training, or countering someone with a well tined special.
Not floating my boat much as of now, I’ll still try it out though.
I would like a training mode option that every hit freezes time so you can practice input order
The website says the alpha starts on the 28th. So… wait till tuesday?
This directly contradicts
.
Anyways, based on what we’ve seen, Rising Thunder won’t obviate the need to have a BnB combo; we already know the game has juggle combos, so we know this won’t be an ST-like “individual pokes really matter” kind of game.
They borrowed a lot of mechanics from SF4. The Kinetic Cancels are a simplified FADC without having to press 2 buttons first, simply dash or jump during an attack. Backdashes have invincibility. The juggle limit under the combo counter is a simplified version of SF4’s juggle potential. Dragonpunches have invincibility. The boxerbots rush punch has armor. Etc, etc.
Not really. There’s a difference between “trying to get some random wins in ranked” and “trying to learn the game”. You need to hit the lab to do the latter, you don’t need the lab for the former. And relying solely on mashing dat DP doesn’t really allow for much improvement down the line, even though it’ll win you games embarrassingly often online.
Anyways. Back to talking about robots punching other robots.
Phantom breaker borrows plenty of mechanics from many games and yet they play differently. Injustice borrow mechanics from Mortal kombate and yet play differently. Juts because mechanics may been borrow doesn’t mean they’ll operate the same. Just because you see a shoryuken doesn’t mean it is shoyuken. Which in gran scheme mean juts because it seem like Sf4 doesn’t mean rising thunder is street fighter 4. Other rise We wouldn’t be bothing with Rising thunder and stick to SF4.
The mechanics of RT are very similar to games we’ve all played before. The only MAJOR differences are the simplified execution on Special Moves, the reduced number of “normal” buttons, and Cooldowns on Special Moves. It’s still an 8 button game (L M H S1 S2 S3 THROW OD). You still have links, chains, cancels, juggles, crossups, empty jumps, meaties, etc.
Anyone that has played a traditional 2D fighting game should have no problem jumping right in and having fun. While there is a lack of buffering/pumping specials/supers, you now have a new element to think about; the aforementioned Cooldowns. As the game progresses, you’ll also have to consider loadouts. For example; Instead of switching Char A for Char B because you can’t beat their Char C, why not replace Special 1(A) with Special 1(B) because it has different properties (throw invuln, anti-air potential, longer range, faster cooldown, etc…).
Basically, the foundation is there and some old things are replaced with some new things. It’s quite good, IMO!
Maybe it’s just me, but the idea of cooldowns potentially forcing you to lose options for a period of time and special move loadouts sounds disgusting. Everything else could be standard fare, but those two things alone could easily make me drop this game. I’m of course going to give it a chance, but man it really just sounds like this is a game that isn’t meant for the FGC but they hope the FGC likes regardless.
To me it just seems that they’re trying to cater towards a very casual fan-base and have taken it way too far, completely destroying any long term interest in their game.
Mo as have cool downs and loadouts, they also have the biggest competitive scene in eGaming. Soooooooooo…
MKX has character variants that can be considered ‘loadouts’.
Both things actively add more to the mind games. Knowing what specials are on cool down changes how you approach your foe, as well as react. Custom loadouts might mean you never know what your opponent has up his sleeve until it comes out. So you might go a match and a half before being surprised by a move you didn’t expect.
Mind games.
If I cared about how big other competitive communities were, I would play other games. I play fighting games because I like fighting games. What mobas do is irrelevant. Mobas being popular doesn’t mean everything they do is the best way to do things and the smartest thing for every genre ever.
Also, MKX variations are limited to only 3 different variations that don’t change ever and you can’t customize them at all. That limitation is better for the competitive community because you can actually learn the matchup. Going into a fight and not knowing what your opponent is capable of is a BAD THING for competitive play. If the loadouts get way too numerous it’s going to be a chore to learn matchups, and if you can customize loadouts I basically quit right then and there. I don’t understand why I should have to relearn the matchup 5+ times for each character. It’s not even like it’s a difficult thing to do, it’s just tedious, it’s the MKX patching problem reinvented. I would rather have more characters with no loadouts than fewer characters with tons of loadouts where I have to guess what my opponent is capable of only to play the matchup wrong until I find out halfway through the match when I could end up running into something I had no way of knowing was a threat.
As for cooldowns, to say that they actively add to mindgames, you can’t prove that right now. Yes, it changes how you approach the match, but it does so be REMOVING options by preventing you from using them in succession. That doesn’t sound like it’s adding anything to the mindgames in my opinion. Here, I’ll even give you an example of what I mean. I whiff DP in your face, right? Well let’s say you react to my DP late, you could attempt to whiff punish me, but if your timing is off you might not get a true punish. Now from here, let’s look at two branching options based on two scenarios, one with cooldowns and one without cooldowns. In a game WITHOUT cooldowns, if I recognized that you reacted late for the whiff punish, I could do DP AGAIN and punish your attempt at punishing. It’s risky, and there’s no way you wouldn’t be ready to punish it at that point if you didn’t push a button, but I have this option that I have that I can threaten with and make you possibly second guess going for a late reaction whiff punish. In a game WITH cooldowns, I whiff DP and now my DP is on a cooldown and I can’t DP again. You go for your late reaction whiff punish and I at best have to either block or try to counterpoke, but given that you will push a button before me, counterpoking is out of the question and I just have to hold that.
Now you can argue that mashing DP like that shouldn’t be allowed to work or that I should be punished for whiffing a DP even if my opponent didn’t successfully react in time to it, but that’s besides the point. That is a level of mindgames that is removed with cooldowns. I lose an option not because my special move takes too long to recover, but because I’m just simply not allowed to use it. I don’t like that. You can even come up with more situations like if your DP happens to be a really useful combo move and you do a combo and then eat a wakeup DP, you are now forced on the defensive because you lose your reversal option and can’t challenge an approach anymore, maybe even other situations. The point being, to just say that these things add to the mindgames just because is faulty logic at best. All changes are not necessarily good changes or things that are fun to play with.
So, if my opponent opens their self up to a punish via a special I have more than once, I can only punish that move once before having to wait for it to cool down?
That’s fucking dumb.