Excellent posts yeb/ilitirit, I’d rep you if I could.
If the above is true then what is the equivalent for a QCF move, it’s not any down and then any forward is it?
For :df::df: DP does the training window show :df::df:? If so then that proves training mode doesn’t show exactly what the engine is interpretting? I wonder if the engine sometimes ignores the closeness of two inputs, not treating them as a diagonal but two separate inputs (yet the training display always evaluates close inputs as diagonals)
I don’t understand in the example of :r::qcf:+p with both a SRK and a FB falling in the window why FB doesn’t outprioritise SRK because of the final forward being hit before P.
:df::df: is not a valid motion for an SRK and you should never see that sequence on it’s own in the input display after an SRK. But yes, the input data display doesn’t always reflect what the engine “sees”. It doesn’t display negative edged button presses for example. eg. Hold :p:, do :qcf: and release :p:. The last punch doesn’t get displayed even though a hadouken is performed. Also, button presses separated by only a few frames are shown ambiguously. eg. mp ~ lp is shown as mp followed by mp + lp, but a lp ~ 3p is shown as lp followed mp + hp. In the second case, the engine still sees the 3P as being simultaneous.
If the game finds several legal moves in it’s input buffer, it will select one based on priority. It doesn’t matter in which order the moves were executed. Here’s an example from SSF2T:
In order of descending priority, the motion :r::d::db::l::db::qcf: + :p: + :k: will give these moves with Ryu:
Tatsu
Shinkuu Hadouken
Shoryuken
Red Hadouken
Hadouken
Obviously the motion needs to be entered before the shortest input window of all the possibilities ends (8 frames for a guaranteed SRK, I think)
I see. You would think the engine could be a little more intelligent choosing which move comes out than just using a fixed priority, i.e which is closer to the button input for example.
So when a Shinku comes out when trying to do a DP from crouched i.e d, f, d, df+p
, is the Shinku motion overlapping because of sloppy inputs or is it a timing issue and a Shinku will always overlap a crouching DP?
The Shinkuu is probably overlapping and executes because of higher priority. From a crouching position, :df::d::df: is the easiest way to guarantee an SRK because you’re only moving between two directions, so there’s no chance of getting a sequence for another move.
You can end on any direction as long as a valid sequence is found in the input buffer. That’s why you can end on a backward for a sonic boom or hadouken.
That said, I don’t know what the shortcut rules are for a super, but it should be easy enough to test with some macro playback software. Diagonals are ambiguous in this game though. I think the way it gets interpreted depends on move and order in the sequence.
What I meant by “do the correct inputs” was BOTH sides of the coin:
Do inputs correctly and you will get the desired moves.
and
Prevent yourself from inputting UNWANTED inputs and you will not have moves coming out that you didn’t want.
I am NOT a very talented player. I’m horribly mediocre actually. Despite working very hard to try and become good, I know I have a really long way to go.
But even at where I am, with my mains I basically NEVER have moves come out that are unwanted, and I almost never have special moves come out that I didn’t intend.
If a mediocre player like me can play sf4 and not have any problems with the inputs…I’m sure anyone can.
What helped me was always turning on input display when in training mode…before I started doing that, I had no idea how sloppy I was being with the stick…I was all over the place, it was disgusting.
After a few weeks of really paying attention my inputs (seeing where I was missing corners, seeing where I was tapping an unwanted direction when trying to do specials, seeing where I was needlessly adding directions that don’t need to be there (like hitting DF instead of just down when all I needed was down)…this problem totally vanished for me.
With characters I don’t play often, I do still have this problem from time to time, but that is fairly natural imho.
jesus fuck. This happens to me all the time, from the left side of the screen. I literally cannot FADC into Ultra without tearing my fucking wrist from the left side.
when i play as gief and go for a FADC crumple into ultra or super i usually get a frigging banishing flat after the 2nd rotation! explain that one to me!
QCF is the only valid motion afaik, however for QCF x2 you can do :d::df::d::df::r: which is useful as you can stay crouched and also ‘pump’ the super/ultra better. :d::r::d::r: is also valid, so I guess same rules apply to qcf as srk except you have to finish on :r: (and maybe you need more than two inputs? Pretty sure :d::r: doesn’t work).
Hahahah, me too. Looking at the ones before that one, I was just sitting thinking “huh, that’s odd” and then that picture with that input and Ryu flying through the air with his first raised
