you can hide charges/inputs in the opening screen, it’s how charge characters instantly use a special at the start. when input display is on for that the only thing shown would be forward + button; no back charge.
I tried this with my PStick and could not replicate it. The sketch was essentially Hold back from frame 1 until Frame J and press uf on frame I (releasing on frame I+1).
I came up with the following
1P side
I>J Jump towards
I=J Jump towards
I<J Jump towards
2P side
I>J Jump towards
I=J Jump towards
I<J Jump backwards
Normally, I would have expected the I<J situation to result in a neutral jump (as the stick is technically asking for ub,u and uf at the same time, so this may reflect a stick prioritising certain inputs rather than a game issue (when I was testing and had a short with all directions active, it would preferentially hold certain directions.)
Any futher details on when this happens? And I’m assuming you had input display on to confirm that ub wasn’t touched on the way to uf.
Analyzing accidental shoryukens
Thanks yeb for pointing out the inaccuracies in the guides. I have the PC version of the game so I decided to do some software testing.
Note: “releasing the first forward” or “releasing forward” does not refer to the forward in the QCF motion, but the forward before it, the forward which was used to walk towards your opponent.
1.a) Ryu walking forward, then doing Down, Down-Forward, Forward, Punch.
(ie, attempting to walk forward then immediately doing a Hadouken - :r:,:qcf::hp:)
For a successful hadouken, approx 95 milliseconds or more are needed between releasing the first forward and pressing the punch key.
For the accidental shoryuken, approx 75 milliseconds or less are needed between releasing the first forward and pressing the punch key.
Pressing the punch key between approx 75-95 milliseconds after releasing the first forward will EITHER give you a fireball or an accidental shoryuken.
1.b) Ryu walking forward, then doing Down-Forward, Down,Down-Forward, Forward, Punch.
(ie same as above EXCEPT at the start he slides his pad/stick from forward position to the down position, thus registering a down-forward before the hadouken motion - :r:,:df::qcf::hp:)
For a successful hadouken, approx 122 milliseconds or more are needed between releasing the first forward and pressing the punch key.
The extra down-forward adds approx 25-30 milliseconds to the required pause window increasing the chance of an erroneous shoryuken occurring - thus it is recommended to move the stick/pad into the neutral position before moving it down (or down back).
2.a) Ryu walking forward, then doing Down, MK, Down-Forward, Forward, Punch.
(ie, attempting to walk forward then immediately doing a c.MK xx Hadouken- :r:,:d::mk::df::r::hp:)
Providing the c.MK connects of course (so is cancelable):
For a successful c.MK XX Hadouken, approx 35 milliseconds or more are needed between releasing the first forward and pressing the punch key. (providing you are within the cancelable window of course)
Pressing the punch key less than 35 milliseconds after releasing the first forward will cancel the MK EITHER into an hadouken or the accidental shoryuken.
2.b) Ryu walking forward, then doing Down-Forward, Down, MK, Down-Forward, Forward, Punch.
(ie same as above EXCEPT at the start he slides his pad/stick from forward position to the down position, thus registering a down-forward before the c.MK - :r:,:df::d::mk::df::r::hp:)
Providing the c.MK connects of course (so is cancelable):
For a successful c.MK XX Hadouken, approx 65 milliseconds or more are needed between releasing the first forward and pressing the punch key. (providing you are within the cancelable window of course)
The extra down-forward adds approx 25-30 milliseconds to the required pause window increasing the chance of an erroneous shoryuken occurring - thus it is recommended to move the stick/pad into the neutral position before moving it down (or down back).
In conclusion,
So if you occasionally accidentally shoryuken when walking forward then doing a fireball or poke fireball, the easiest thing you can do to help minimize the accidental shoryuken is ensuring that you do not register down-forward before you cast the fireball. From forward, move to neutral then down (or down back) if necessary.
If you already move to neutral then down or down-back, you then have no choice but to add a delay to your inputs, pause momentarily at some point so that there’s at least 0.1 of a second total between releasing the first forward and your final punch, or if a poke xx fireball, then at least 0.04 of a second total between releasing the first forward and your final punch.
Final notes:
(1)SF4 may not use a RNG (random number generator), but there seems to be scenarios where some indecisive behaviour occurs, such as putting in the exact same input twice in a row results in a different move being performed. (for example in section 1.a) above) throwing the punch 85 milliseconds in seems to randomly result in either an hadouken or a shoryuken.
(2)Even though I use Ryu for these tests, you could probably expect similar input behaviour for other characters who have overlapping moves.
(3)Some processors handle tiny time increments (1-9 milliseconds) differently, and sometimes increment times less than 5ms to 5 or 10 ms). So its very possible that the window for certain moves to occur may be slightly different on the PC, 360 or the PS3. Finally the times above are not perfectly accurate, when dealing with tiny time values its very difficult to get absolute exact values.
shit dude, that’s even worse than what i thought it was ( :df::df: dp shortcut)
at the very least the first input should have to be straight forward, strictly and only…
ps
this also explain quite clear that double fireball is a valid srk input and you have to leave it down to the decision making of the game to hope you get an ultra or super when you want.
Drexion, I suspect your post has a lot of information similar to mine but has taken it further. I wonder if the information wouldn’t be better put in terms of frames however, this might eliminate some of the approximates in timings.
If you attempted a super or ultra and get an SRK instead, it means that you made a mistake.
some of these motions were actually present in many other FGs that have DP motions. The 63236+button is the one I know the best, simply because that’s how I learned to execute DPs on pad back in World Warrior days and kept using it in every other game such as Rival Schools, KOF and so on… I only use the actual 623 motion when playing on sticks.
ok, test this.
pick Ryu. set “show commands” in options to yes. put yourself as far as possible from the training dummy.
now throw a EX fireball. right after the animation ends, throw Ultra.
do it buffering the Ultra stick/pad movement while the fireball animation runs.
ouch, EX Dragon Punch!!
Umm no…double fireball might be a valid srk or EX srk input, but not when you have Super meter or Ultra meter loaded.
You can’t buffer during active frames, unless the move is cancellable. Charge can be buffered though.
If df, df P is not a valid DP shortcut, how are people option-selecting with it? For example, that thread made a few days ago where people can option-select block-DP Rufus’ ambiguous dive kick with Sagat/Ryu by (while getting up), db, db, negative edge P? It will block the dive kick if it comes out in front, or DP it if he goes behind you.
The same way they get regular DPs like that: by hitting extra directions. Hitting a diagonal twice in a row without touching any other directions is actually kind of difficult, especially in a real match.
Besides, I doubt the person who made that topic fully understood what was going on anyway. You could just as easily use the classic cross-up DP motion (f, df, d, db) and release punch. And in SF4, that can be shortened to just df, d, db…
I guess this is why I get green hand when I try for 360s.
interesting enough, i was walking forward then dashing back at the arcade yesterday, and instead it dashed forward… I did it pretty consistently.
haha. if anything, make dashing go in the direction you did it in. lol @ gief crossing me up, me doing a backdash, but getting a forward dash.
Then why am I getting DPs every single time from standing still and pressing :df::df: … ?
I mean, this is the only way i’ve been pulling off Z motions lately since it’s so consistent.
lol you know whats funny in one of my recent matches while i was playing seth i tried it out just to see, so in the very beginning match i went :df::df: lp and BAM srk. LOL i dunno if i’m accidentaly hitting crap or what, but that is f’ing lame. :lame:
:hcb::ub::u::uf:
also works, which is effing retarded
Umm…anyone try dashing forward, hitting neutral on the joystick and then fireballing? The neutral has to be a split second but surely it should work.
The only reason I mention this is due to how difficult one of Fei’s bnb combo is. His cr.lk, cr.lk, cr.lp xx rekka is next to impossible to pull out due to the 1 frame link. But if you hit neutral right as soon as the second cr.lk hits and then press down to forward, you’ll get the full 6 hit.
I’m not trying to throw one of Fei’s combos in but merely stating the overall process of going through it.
Question: How many of you guys (Shoto users especially) dash forward and are already holding down on the pad/stick before the dash is completed? Have you guys ever tried to dash foward, neutral and then press :d: to :qcf: + punch?
Just a suggestion, don’t flame please.
Strange inputs that produce special moves shouldn’t come as a surprise if you consider the rules that govern execution of a Street Fighter game. These rules basically boil down to input sequence, window of execution, leniency and priority. Roughly, this is how it works:
The sequence for a an SRK is forward, down, down-forward, and for argument’s sake let’s say the execution window is 16 frames, and that you get 5 frames of leniency. The leniency window acts as a sort of buffer for when you’re in block stun, in the air or knocked down so that you can perform a move instantly.
So, if you do f, d, df and press P, you’ll get an SRK provided that the entire sequence was entered within the window of execution 16 frames, and you’re within a valid position to perform the move 5 frames after punch was pressed (in other words, you can’t do an SRK just after you’ve jumped, but you can do it 4 frames before you land it will execute as you hit the ground)
Now this is the “strange” part. It doesn’t matter what motions you enter during the window of execution provided that it contains the sub-sequence of inputs of the move you want to perform. In other words, you should theoretically be able to do f, b, d, b, df, f + p within 16 frames and get an SRK. This does not apply to motions that change your state. eg. If you press UP and don’t complete the before the character leaves the pre-jump state, you will jump instead. In the case where there are overlapping moves within the window of execution, the game selects the move which has the highest priority. Eg. Even though the sequence f, d, df, f + p contains sub-sequences for an SRK and a hadouken, the SRK will get executed because it has higher priority.
Note that even though this a simplified explanation, this is more or less how Street Fighter has worked since SFII. What is different in this iteration is the simplification of the input sequences (shortcuts), and then widening of the execution and leniency windows.
Long story short, none of these inputs that were posted are all that strange if you consider the rules. The only ones worth considering are those that have properties that can be exploited in combination with other techniques (eg. db, d, db neg edge P), or on their own.