So for the longest time, I took for granted that shotos dps are the most invincible of all the reversal moves in the game. However, this notion was definitely challenged when I heard that T. Hawks tomahawk buster beats it clean, and then clearly disproven when I saw that combo video by NKI.
Anyway, I had some time on my hands so I decided to test out for myself how invincible Hawk’s (well N. Hawk anyway) tomahawk buster was on NFBA by using the easy moves function and pitting it against other reversal moves. The results were quite perplexing.
At point blank range starting at exactly the same time (done by mapping the same button for each players move) tomahawk buster beats pretty much every reversal move besides Honda’s jab headbutt. So naturally, I figured that jab headbutt was the most invincible move in the game and started testing it against some others, but lo and behold Balrog’s buffalo hedbutt beats it clean, but also loses cleanly to Tomahawk buster. This clusterfuck personally doesn’t make any sense to me. I mean its at point blank, the attack with the most startup invincibility should win, right?
Can anyone tell me why this happens, and is there really any most invincible attack in this game?
Your best bet is to go to training mode and turn on the hitboxes (and the slowest speed). From there, you can execute your moves and see where the hitboxes are.
Generally though, if two moves are started at the same time and both start of with initial frames of invulnerability (the characters don’t have any damage-taking hitboxes) then the character which exposes a damage-producing hitbox first in their animation while the opponent has a damage-taking hitbox present is the character will win.
You’re pretty offpoint here with your method of finding out individual attack invincibility. And I think Fei’s super has the most full body invincibility, with 83 frames, IIRC.
I thought that Ken’s strong DP and Akuma’s Jab DP were completely invincible during their hit frames. That is, they didn’t have any blue hitboxes at all.
I’m a little confused at the terminology of the original post. I don’t think there are different levels of invincibility. Moves are either invincible or they are not. I think what you are getting at is that some moves have invulnerability for longer durations that others. In that case I would say that it is probably Ken’s Strong DP.
The Jab headbutt isn’t invincible. It just has a very big hitbox, and a hard to hit collison box. If it were invincible it would have been possible to go through fireballs with it in ST. The reason why it beats the tomahawk buster is probably because Honda’s head can poke through the vulnerable side of T. Hawk during the T. Buster animation.
Yeah, I mean duration I guess of invulnerability when I’m talking about invincibility.
Definitely though jab buffalo headbutt can go through fireballs, its just strong that couldn’t before, for whatever reason.
Still doesn’t explain though why tomahawk beats it, but loses to Honda’s jab headbutt, while jab headbutt beats jab buffalo headbutt. If it was a simple duration of invincibility issue, then the move with the greatest duration of invincibility would beat all the other moves. I don’t really understand why this isn’t the case here.
No, any attack attempted on it will whiff, which is why everyone is trying to jump out of it as opposed to a reversal.
The explanation is that the defensive hitboxes that appear after the invincibility wears off and how offensive and defensive hitboxes overlap must be taken into account also. If a move with less invincibility frames beats one with more, then it occurs because the offensive hitboxes that were present from the character using the move with long invulnerability never overlapped with the defensive hitboxes from the character using the move with less invulnerability. Say, the defensive hitboxes were behind the character, or the move had low attack hitboxes while the opponent was only vulnerable around the head.
Interesting answers guys. I’ve also heard that O. Hawk’s tomahawk had a smaller vulnerable hitbox than N. Hawk, but I couldn’t test it because I wasn’t getting the code out consistently for some reason. Maybe that would make a difference though.
The startup on Honda’s jab headbutt is invincible. In training mode both red and blue boxes completely disappear prior to him leaving the ground. However, both red and blue hit boxes seem to appear simultaneously afterwards, with honda’s head being invincible.
It beats uppercuts because the headbutt has so much startup, dp invincibility wears off by the time the move is active unless its one of the uber uppercuts.