Yeah you have to be extremely patient. You’ll have to play footsies and weave in back and forth with your air game to find openings. You’re more agile then the heavy hitters, so you have to move out of their attack range and then move back in during their recoil.
footsies is what I do vs like… Donkey Kong and Ike. When I can footsie I don’t have a problem, but chars like Snake… you can’t really do that on
Okay after goofing off for a bit I’ve found that short hop Dair > Rest is not the only thing you can do after a Dair.
at 70% or higher, you can link in standing AA (useless? probably, but maybe not. I guess it depends on the circumstances)
and at 100% or higher you can link an U-tilt.
Dair > U-tilt is great because it can Ko opponents at 115% or higher. This is safer to use on opponents if your percentage is too high and you don’t want to risk the Rest combo.
if we had frame data I could look up the startup of Jigglypuff’s U-tilt and the startup of Jigglypuff’s throw. If its the same then that could link as well. I’ve thrown opponents plenty of time after a D-air but I have no idea if the opponent was actually able to attack or not. =/ All I do know is that at lower percentages none of this will work.
one thing I’ve noticed is that Jigglypuff seems to totally obsolete the PT pokemon just by being floaty
Oh yeah, Jiggly is pretty much my favorite pokemon in smash. Squirtle can be a dick with his aerial shenanigans but air-pound fixes that. Charizard (or at least the ones I fight) like to use Up+b as a quick kill move, but I just air dodge and rest him while he’s in recovery-fall.
And ivy is just a joy to gimp :karate:
I’d argue that is has use since, while it won’t KO, it adds more damage which can make the difference later on in the match. Good stuff. The grab probably does combo which would be good for a breather.
EDIT: Did some more today, gonna clarify a bit.
Meta-Knight, Meta-Knight, Meta-Knight.
It is easily Jiggly’s worst matchup. Well, her and everyone else. I have found a few things that will help though.
The best way in my experience to handle him is to get him off the stage ASAP. He is simply too dangerous on the ground to fight him off anywhere else.
Use Pounds, shield-grabbed D-throws, whatever you can land to weaken him until he is at enough of a percentage that you can shield-grab him and toss him off a decent length (I’d say about 50%). Reason being because if he doesn’t fly far enough, he’s just going to be able to drill or tornado right back on and there is isn’t much that Jiggly can do about that.
Once he’s off the edge, you are at an advantage for once. Use a WOP (Fair and Bair works best) and try to keep him off as much as possible. Watch out for his Up+B and the quick attack that can result from it- both can hit you through a Bair.
The good news is that very little of what he does is strong enough to KO you until high percents. Of course, he can get you to those percents very easily, so you have to try not to get hit often.
One thing to note is that Pound can actually take out Meta-Knight’s tornado if you aim for either the upper or lower extreme, where he’s vulerable. Since the tornado rises when you tap the button, it shouldn’t be too hard to aim a low pound at it, but it takes a lot of practice to do consistently and MKs love to tornado on top of you.
I keep practicing against meta-knights so maybe I’ll be able to clarify on some of these or even find new tricks to use against them. Once I think I have some solid ways of dealing with them figured out, I’ll have to practice against Snakes.
Yeah I’ve had my F-air knock MK out his tornado as well at the upper extreme.
Yours strats sound pretty legit. Stay in the air like you said. Pound is honestly one of the best moves you’ve got. Also going for a rest combo isn’t as risky verse MK as other characters since he can’t kill as well. I’ll attempt it when necessary.
Dair into Rest is another good way to take him out quickly if you can manage to approach him. I’ve also heard that Rollout is actually pretty decent against him, but all my opponents have been too easily predicting it :.
Oddly, it seems Jigglypuff has a tough time against other Jigglypuffs. Or at least I did. The match was pretty much whiffing bairs, fairs and pounds on eachother, then when one of us got the other off the stage, fail to WOP due to their maneuverability :P.
It did show me some interesting alternative ways to get back on the stage safely though, which brings me to the question; what are some of the best ways? Jiggs’ standard attack on stage is effective, but her delayed one (and I dont’ know what triggers it O_o) is terrible and often gets her countered. The one I kept seeing the other Jiggs do was a jump up dair.
Maybe that is the best one at high percents.
I also read about ledge cancelling sing (Jumping up, Singing, letting the ledge sweetspot cancel the Sing animation), and I can do that fine, but can’t seem to actually get it to HIT the opponent. Usually I either just get it ledge-cancelled with no effect or the opponent hits me through it. Is there a trick to that?
Are you talking about pound?
Anyways, the sing usually does not put the person asleep and even if it did, they would wake up before you could do anything about it. :shake:
The trick in Melee was that you could be invunerable almost the whole time while doing it but in Brawl I think you are forced to stay on the edge too long for that to happen.
I’m afraid I don’t follow. Clarify when?
Well, it has 3 pulses from what I notice. If the opponent is hit by a pulse, they fall asleep. But this sing ledge-cancelling trick doesn’t seem to hit the opponent very often. If it DOES hit the opponent, I have plenty of time to do a get-up attack at the very worst (and at best, jump on and grab them). I’m just wondering if maybe there is a trick to timing when it comes to getting a ledge-cancelled sing to consistently hit.
If there’s not, Sing is pretty much a lost cause save for the shock factor. I’ve cause people in it at random when I short-hopped at them. They seemed surprised enough that they gave me enough time to fsmash em.
I’m afraid I’m not following this either. You mean the ledge singing?
Has anyone had a chance to try this yet? http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=184095
The list says it doesn’t work on Meta Knight but it does work on Snake and Wolf which is really helpful for Jigglypuff.
It’s difficult to actually pull off and I’m having a hard time justifying its utility when it absolutely has to be the first thing you land in those specific match-ups or it won’t work (since it doesn’t work past 10% at most).
In Melee you were invincible for 30 frames (which is exactly half of a second) when you grabbed the edge. When you jumped of the edge immediately afterwards you retained those invincibility frames. So what you could do was jumping up and using your sing move which was partly (depending on how fast you jumped of the edge and didn’t “waste” those frames) invincible now (similar to roll cancelling in CvS2).
The singing canceled your momentum and you fell back to the ledge where the singing was canceled and you regained new invincibility.
I think you were nearly if not completely invincible when you did it frame-perfectly.
So when your opponent was near the edge you could actually put him to sleep without being in danger of getting hit.
When you reacted fast he didn’t even need to sleep long (not many %) for you to jump back on the stage and rest him (of course 0% can be troublesome ^^).
^ I see. It’s too bad that got ruined then. Poor Jiggly needs all the practical tricks she can get in Brawl :.
what’s wop.
Wall of Pain. When you keep someone off the stage By Any Means Possible. Jigglypuff is amazing at it because she has very little air restriction so she can throw you off the stage and chase right after you with zero fear of killing herself.
kirby does this better now, plus he is better on the stage as well.
lol yeah melee jigg is definitely better than brawl jigg. and average kill for rest is seriously like 70-80%… i’ve only seen 50% on small characters on small stages. face it dude, her rest isn’t what it used to be. and if it doesn’t kill them, that flower isn’t much help since they can punish you. lol link’s d-air is like an instant kill.
roll-out is only effective on stages without platforms, or with a large base, and most experienced players are gonna stay airborne to avoid it. and i totally disagree with the statement “jiggy has the best recovery game”. lucas, luigi, metaknight, pit… they’re all above her in recovery. what jiggy is good at though is avoiding the opponent and that’s honestly what makes her game so strong.
and in my book, brawl jiggy is definitely not above pikachu. down-b combos ftw.