Respect the Palm - Dr. Strange Frame Traps

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
1

Reposting from GameFAQs. I felt that this needed its own thread in order for us to kickstart the development of his close range game, which is pretty mediocre at this point. It’s basically just fishing for hits and canceling into Mystic Sword, hoping they don’t hit you out of your recovery frames. Nah, we need to do something about those terrible normals immediately. Here’s what I thought of so far.

So it finally occurred to me that after months of Strange players begging for buffs to his normals and my own personal complaints, there must be some way to make something out of their awful frame advantage both on hit and block. A -7 on block crouching light attack that doesn’t even hit low? No freaking thanks man.

To make a long story short, I found a way to make use of Impact Palm’s amazing 6 frame startup and crumple state properties in frame traps that lead to full combos, kind of like in SF4.

The setup is this: cr.L, cr.L, st.M, slight pause, double tap f.H for Impact Palm. You can exchange st.M for cr.M to hit smaller characters like Viewtiful Joe; you need some range for Impact Palm to connect. Doesn’t work if you’re at point blank range.

The basic science of this, just like frame traps in SF4, is you’re giving the opponent the opportunity to hit you out of st.M (which moves Strange forward so Impact Palm doesn’t whiff). st.M has a ludicrous -17 frame advantage on block. Since Impact Palm is a command normal that you can lead into from his negative normals, you can cancel that -17 frame advantage into Impact Palm’s 6f startup, stuffing their next attack and leading into a free combo.

How is this useful exactly? Consider it a pseudo-option select. Pushblocking is more or less in Strange’s favor because he needs some space to get EoAs and Graces out, as well as establish a proper zoning game by putting a bunch of hitboxes on screen. So if they do pushblock, good for you-- you just got some breathing room. If they don’t, they’re probably looking to take advantage of Strange’s extremely unsafe close range game by mashing their light attack or assist as soon as your blockstring ends.

Punish them by doing this frame trap, which of course leads into a full combo as long you can confirm appropriately. If they sniff out the frame trap, Impact Palm is still safe as long as you cancel into Mystic Sword L/M, or better yet call an assist (like Viper’s overhead Burn Kick) while doing the Impact Palm input.

Hope this helps some people. I’m still testing this out myself, and would love to hear your inputs on this. I’ll try making a video soon if I can.

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The only part I don’t understand is why you suggest to “double tap” the f.H.

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Helps with the timing, like when doing links in SF. You don’t have all the time in the world to catch them with the frame trap. Do it too early and it becomes a blockstring, do it too late and they can still hit you out of it. Second best case scenario is you’ll trade but you’ll still get the crumple.

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Man this is truly ground breaking tech. and after of a blocked I.P. there is a chance for another frame trap with a dagger L i think.

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This is definitely something I will be labbing. I am in need of more Strange tricks as far as opening people up and winning at the line of scrimmage so to speak.

I heart crumples lol.

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We have Cold Star too so the layers go even deeper. If they block, you can still call assist and teleport twice. Soooooo dirty.

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Who’s going to fall for a frame trap without any consequence for NOT pressing buttons?

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It’s Marvel. People are known to mash out assists and buttons because they can get away with it thanks to their priority. Strange of all characters because everyone knows his buttons are some of the most unsafe out there.

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is this really new? i was expecting something much hmm i dont know, “more”? ive been using this for a bit, i mean its good but is it really that amazing? sorry, just kind of disappointing. i was very excited when i read your post maz only to find it its a bit lackluster.

edit not sure if you also posted this but ive also gone straight into throw using the delayed palm thing

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Lol sorry to disappoint Bronson. I’m just trying to find ways to make something out of his shitty normals and this is what I came up with so far.

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Bronson, Polish has some really out of control Strange tech with legit frame traps and set ups and guard breaks. If you are going to EVO hit him up he’s going. Pretty sure he’s got the best Strange.

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Honestly, I’m just trying to start some discussions. This wasn’t something I’ve been working on for months, nothing like that. Like most of what I do in training mode, it happens by accident. I just thought, “Okay, this might lead to something.” So I posted here.

Now if you guys have anything resembling this “secret tech” nobody knows about and would care to share, please do so. This is for everyone.

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maz i understand. sorry if i came off a bit negative. discussion is always good thing to have. for now ive given up on strange. hes just to hard vs the players i tend to play against but he’ll always have a place in my heart.

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BTW it’s a frame trap in two ways, Strange can get a free crumple / trade + crumple, or a ground grab. Strange ground grab range and priority is top notch.

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So, just for a visual example, this is what I came up within 30 minutes in the lab.

[media=youtube]G46ZNoxRSX0[/media]

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Viper x Strange are looking mighty good !!

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Listening to this video late at night, practicing Strange tech rises questions from the wife who should be sleeping in the bedroom :lol: Tell me it doesn’t sound like some skinemax scene, lol.

  • Rotendo
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Just a quick mention, You can make this a double frame trap. If they block the IP you can delay a mystic sword L for another frame trap, then combo off it with a S, teleport combo starter if it hits or do whatever you want if its blocked, since you have so much time to confirm a hit with it.

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Real talk, this is stupid. This will only work against people who are misinformed enough to attempt to pushblock Strange which no one should ever do. You should never be attempting any kind of close range offense with Strange without an assist ready to make you safe. If you are close range without an assist, you are at a disadvantage, even if you’re the one attacking.

Here’s all the things you could possibly do up close without an assist and how you’ll get punished for them.

cr.L tick throw: -7 on block, -6 on hit. Trying to tick throw your opponent from a cr.L leaves you at huge risk of being thrown before you even
press the throw button. Because you’re still recovering from an attack, you can’t tech the throw if you get thrown first. And because you’ll have to be in point blank range, trying to tick throw is giving your opponent the opportunity to throw you assuming their throw reactions aren’t asleep. You should only do this if you know they aren’t looking for it.

cr.L chains: This sadly is the safest thing you can do. Just keep pushing cr.L until your opponent is pushed far enough away to where you can not be thrown during the recovery of your jab. You can end with a cr.H to hit them out of cr.L range and cancel it into special move to push away. However if they’re not blocking low the cr.H won’t combo into a Mystic Sword M. Try to cancel into a Flame or Dagger instead, but you still might get punished.

Mystic Sword L: Whiffs on crouchers. Don’t do this without an assist. If you do have an assist, by all means, use this move against grounded opponents. However, if the second hit hits a crouching opponent without the first hit hitting, they’ll instantly recover and you’ll get punished.

cr.M: This is only good because it pushes Strange so far away that Mystic Sword M will be safer on block than it would be if used with other moves. If you’re actually trying to mount an offense, never use this move, you’ll end up whiffing your next move, most likely.

Mystic Sword M: Generally speaking your safest way of ending a blocksting against non-cornered opponents. You’ll still be minus on block, but you’ll be okay, ish. The farther away they are when you do this, the better advantage. Never do this against a cornered opponent or it’s a free punish.

Teleport: Depending on which one you use (L and M are 29 frame animations, H is 24,) you may be safe or unsafe depending on what just happened before you teleported. Since there’s no real guarantee here, it’s not totally recommended.

Dagger of Denak: Now we’re getting somewhere. Out of all the things you could do up close without an assist, this is probably your best choice. Cancel into Dagger after a blocked anything, and you’ll have set up very confirmable and relatively safe frame trap. As long as you have enough frame advantage to deploy the Dagger up till it begins flying, you are safe. The dagger will not go away if Strange is hit after that point, and if it hits the opponent, you can confirm with a standard chain. HOWEVER, chaining into this move can be difficult, and is best chained from Impact Palm, but due to the nature of direction input in Marvel, you will more often than not get a Mystic Sword L when attempting this. Palm is the only move that will combo into the Dagger on hit (for a full combo!) and gives the best advantage on block against all hitboxes. The only good way to circumvent the input glitch is to chain into Impact Palm by buffering the fwd.H early in the previous move’s startup, let go of forward as soon as possible, and input Dagger of Denak, pressing the L button as late as possible into the Palm’s hitstop. It could also help to exaggerate the qcf input by doing a full-ass circle input.

Now here’s all the things you could do with an assist and not get punished

CALL THE ASSIST BEFORE YOU’RE OUT OF FRAME ADVANTAGE

And that’s about it. You don’t want to be in with Strange. You want them scared into blocking projectiles so when you decided to do a teleport mixup it’ll hit. Frame traps are anchor-Strange emergency only. Getting too aggressive with Strange is the quickest way to get him killed.

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Well, this was posted about a year ago when nobody had any concrete idea on how to play Strange yet, so…