Sure I guess…whatever floats you alls boat…
i think if they would have kept most of the moves from RBS but balanced them out and rearranged them, it could have been a far better game. not to mention if they added more win poses (and special intros and perfect win poses) and all that shit i really missed i RB2. they already took out the stupid bg plane combos in 2, most long chains as well and added the feint moves in combos. just imagine they even would have kept most of their moves from RBS and balanced it that way. some of the extra combos that are gone now but just made them smaller (like terry’s df+A, C, C combo, which is now 3 hits, used to be 5 in RBS?). would have been the ultimate FF game for sure. in fact, when i first saw RB2 in a magazine way back before it came out, i was expecting the greatest and biggest FF ever. as soon as it got released i bought it for my neo cd and was really disappointed. so many moves and great things from RBS where gone now. after mastering the game and playing it for a year or so i gave up on it. we played RBS more than RB2. then all of a sudden we got to see RB2 for what it is, the best RB game. though it could have been FAR better. my guess is that it was far easier to balance a game with lesser moves per character than to do so for a game with 10 moves per character.
This guy conveys my attitude about RB2 precisely. I was expecting more than RBS 1.5 w/less moves for characters…which is what it is… Hell even if they wouldve kept the moves and toned some down like he said it wouldve been a better game…
BUt it seemed like almost an unfinished game to me…Ninjamatt can come in an elaborate on this some more…
If a SNK game has the name “Special” in it except it to be good and a good tribute to the fans…its almost pretty much a Dream Match…
QUOTE=the supreme;4852971]NO. These are the real tier because i have played this game since it came out with a large Fatal Fury group since day one, some of whom have also taken their skills to Japan to compete
In Order
TOP:
Geese Howard
Franco Bash
Kim Kap
Billy Kane
Mid
Mai S
Andy
Blue Mary
Sokaku
Chonrei
Terry
Joe
Lower Mid
Yamazaki
Hon Fu
ChonSu
Low
Duck King
Bob
I respect your post but you’re posting theoreticals. Real Bout is heavily about matchups too and some characters lose to others easy (Kim beats Blue Mary quite easily, Franco beats Sokaku and most others, Billy beats Sokaku and Hon Fu very very well).
Sokaku & Terry top? You must be kidding… there are a few characters that beat them well. The real monsters in this game are Franco Bask (JESUS CHRIST!! 2 Infinite combos, low and overhead tricks, ludicrous jump ins and cross ups, superb guard reversal that can be extended, double super that can be extended for full bar damage, great normal super, superb low jabs and pressure game ), Geese (infinite trap in corner B > reppuken that cant be escaped easy, throw into throw trick, Raging Storm corner trap buffer that is nigh impossible to escape even using background, great normal anti air, high damage character, super easy guard reversal, one of the best pressure characters in the game), Kim (ridiculous combo options, godly anti air, possibly the best sweep in the game, stupid overhead or low hit into super combo annoyance mixup), Billy (obscene overprioritised normals such as forward + A, easy high damage combos, double super is a guard reversal, WTF…my character of choice!!). Mai could be considered IMHO top tier worth her mixups, easy combo starters and very high priority jump ins but some say no given the others in that group…
If any one wants an in depth faq with fulll explanation of the tiers I’ve of posted i’ll be happy to oblige and explain exactly why the ones posted before mine are wrong…
[/quote]
I’m afraid I have to disagree with a lot of that placement. Geese is a good character, certainly, but by no means top tier. His Reppuken whiffs if decently close, meaning that his pressure strings/infinites are very range-specific. Infinites aren’t really anything to write home about in this game, as half the cast have them and most are braindead-easy (Andy, Kim, Geese, Sokaku, Joe, Yamazaki, and Bash off the top of my head), and really Geese’s infinite is probably one of the hardest in that group.
Franco “Bask” is good, DAMN good. That’s why I put him in high tier. But he has a few weaknessess:
-
Middling anti-air. Power Bicycle gets the job done, but it’s slow and doesn’t have that much priority.
-
On the slow side. One-two (It’s really the A version double-kong, but I think that calling it the one-two sounds cooler ) has great speed, but it also has pushback so it doesn’t really let you get in. Meteo Tackle is fast, but the forward movement for it is so slow and the priority of it is bleh, so just tossing it out can get you killed if you’re not on the offensive.
-
Though his supers aren’t terrible, they definitely don’t deserve the title of “great”. S-power is super-slow, isn’t an overhead (someone was asleep on the job ), it’s unsafe, doesn’t have great range, and if you’re going to use it as an anti-air (which really is its only use), you practically have to do it before they jump. His p-power has zero range, it’s slow (just barely comboable from the first hit of his close C), and doesn’t do that much damage for all the risk involved. It rings out like a beast, though, I will give it that.
Speaking of ring-outs, I noticed you didn’t even mention that. It’s one of his greatest strengths. Meteo Tackle + high-low games = OUT OF BOUNDS.
In NO WAY EVER does Franco have a good matchup against Sokaku. Sokaku has just about everything Franco has, but he can do it from full-screen and chip you to hell and back in the meantime.
In fact, that’s why Sokaku is top tier. You’re turtling somewhere? He’ll dance of demons you and get a free, nigh-unblockable mixup. You jump? He’ll turn the WHOLE DAMN SCREEN into a hitbox with his thunder bolt, or just do his flame wheel which beats 99% of everything. You’re at half-screen and trying to close the distance? He’ll demon punch you and either get half a bar of damage or give you chip and have the advantage.
Hon-Fu low? Ludicrous. I could count on one hand the number of things that beat his Sky of Fire, which, by the way, is super-safe, high-damage, guard-cancellable, and has beastly range. His p-power is really damn fast, has great range, and takes off gobs of damage, and his good-ass normals and normal chains give him ample combo opportunity.
If you think that Mary is mid-tier, you’ve never played one. She’s got the hands-down best mixup in the game, and zero risk on anything she does sans the vertical arrow, not to mention she can force aforementioned mixup from just about anywhere because her moves cover tons of ground. As for her supers, her s-power and p-power have fantastic range and great recovery.
Terry, he might not be tops, but there’s no way that he’s mid. Power Geyser is one of the best supers in the game: Fastest it’s ever been, really safe (Just spamming it works!), hits ALL THREE PLANES, negating wakeup lineshifts, huge damage, and 4-5 hits of chip damage on block. His p-power is everything good about his S-power with added range and safeness.
Duck King takes a lot of work, but there’s no way he’s scraping the bottom. High-speed mixup with his back + A, qcb+B, and s-power, good priority all around, really quick character that can just keep the pressure coming.
what about yamazakis snake cancel infinite from RB? does this make him top tier cause hes got a corner infinite?
Dice, wakeup line-shifting is a pretty terrible idea in RB1 anyway. The opponent can try a meaty light attack, and even if your reversal is successful he STILL gets a guaranteed standing D.
The thing with Franco is that against most of the cast, any light attack leads to an infinite, anywhere on the screen. I don’t see how anyone beats that for practicality. And in the corner he also has an infinite block string ala CE Bison. Who else can match these?
I am interested, though: What are these other characters’ infinites?
And to Dark Geese:
I don’t think you understand what I’m talking about, exactly.
A good way to demonstrate this is via Guilty Gear. Axl is superficially “better” and “more fun to play” in Accent Core - his long-range pokes now lead to big-damage air combos, his Axl Bomber is now an overhead that has frame advantage and starts huge corner loops, etc. However, he actually had a better chance of winning at high level in Slash! Why?
Because Accent Core is a more top-tier heavy game than Slash was. More simply, the difference between the best and the average is greater in AC. In a head-to-head matchup, AC Axl would definitely beat Slash Axl, yet Slash Axl was better in tournaments since that whole game’s cast was weaker than AC’s.
What relation does this have to RB, you ask?
Simple! RB2 is basically the Slash of the series, while the others are much worse versions of AC in my view. Sokaku is pretty much an exact “average” character in RB2, which is why I brought him up; I am saying that an average character has a better chance against top-tier in RB2 than in the others. That is all.
-Josh
Sokaku’s infinite is a properly-spaced caltrop throw over and over in the corner.
Yamazaki’s infinite is his usual snake tamer cancel shenanigans.
Andy has an infinite juggle with his s-power.
Kim has an infinite juggle with his Hien Zan, but it’s harder than it looks.
Geese has reppuken, A, C, C, Reppuken IIRC
Joe has hurricane upper, close C, hurricane upper.
Ohhh…okay man…gotcha!!!
We may never be friends:amazed::shake::sad:
Hey Josh,
Yes, that is both his infinites, the second one being retarded because its on overheard combo thats hard to spot. Yes, you could do damage limitation and stand up and take the hit but a knock against Franco bash has a whole heap of other consequences to
His Power bicycle move is the key to his game play, its ridiculously annoying if you know how to use it.
But also did you know that you can do the overhead combo after any combo that end in the shoulder barge move (which is usually very safe to use) and it all connects. Even if the crouch block the whole thing the over head will knock into the background which leads to my next point.
His S-Power super 'Armageddon Buster combos FROM A BACKGROUND HIT. This is a major element too.in fact its very dangerous. Why? Because he can get you in the background with a cheap overhead combo if you block low OR Power Bicycle if you jump in (which knocks you into the background if youre airbourne). From there its background hit > Armageddon Buster > juggle until dead.
Jumping in against Bash is almost impossible in the normal field of play, his jumping Strong air to air beats almost everythig and his Power Bicycle looks like slow startup but its so high priority youll still end up in the background sometimes even on counter hit. For an easy death do Power Bicycle (when they jump in) then Background Hit > walk forward slightly, Power Bicycle > Background Hit [x N] until dizzy. This kills anyone who doesnt have a fast dash evade in the background (so Chonrei for instance might be able to escape). In the corner everyone dies though. Eventually kill with Wuh Duh super or another combo after this semi-infinite has done its job…seriously, hes so f*cked up…
My bad though, I thought his guard cancel was the shoulder barge but I think its actually just the double kong overhead which doesnt have a follow up.
Sorry but touch! Geese is most definitely top tier indeed, I didnt think so myself until we spent a few year finding out why. But he most definateky is because he is varied, high damage and has so nice tricks to boot. In addition he is great against all other top tier characters (Sokaku included - no jump ins, no fire rolls at all, multi hit combo blocked is severely punished, no full screen air dive), the only ones giving him major hassles are Mai, Franco and Billy (or a clever Kim/Blue Mary)
Why is he top tier
*B>Reppuken pressure string this is not that range specific, you just have to get the oponnent in the corner and then spam away. Even Gamest recognises that this is a bit broken, as they highlighted it. ANYONE WITHOUT A HIGH PRIORITY DRAGON OR ANTI AIR CANNOT ESCAPE THIS WITH A GUARD COUNTER (AND AN APPROPRIATE ONE AT THAT).
As for the infinites in this game being easy, thats simply not true, they arent that easy, esp. in match play. Try doing Yamazaki snake hand cancel infinite in a match, it just cant be done unless you are truly godly. Even Sokaku multi-fireball infinite isnt easy, it just looks so…
*KOF 95 Heidern style counter so easy, very very annoying. His guard reversal is high damage. Only use against a grounded opponent or else the rest will miss. After all the hits connect walk forward and do that splash ground pick up throw for style points. And look at the damage.
Raging strom corner trap fck knows how you get out of this. If Geese gets you in the corner and you dont have something magical (like Billy Double Super guard counter) you are dead, simple as that. Fast background dashers like Mary or Chonrei cant escape either. This is one thing that is truly unfair. A clever Geese will get you in the corner either through careful normal play or by using the Geneijin shoulder charge guard reversal AND NOT PICKING YOU UP AFTER. Picking you up after such a knockdown changes sides and takes you out of the corner, thats why you have that option. Once the opponent is in the corner use B > reppuken or the combo ending in multi hitting hard punch > reppuken to build meter then use either >
*Combo ending in multi punch cancel into Raging Storm
*Combo ending with sweep cancel into Raging Storm
*Uppercut combo cancel into Raging Storm
Repeat until dead. This is vitually in escapeable. Block and guard damage will eventually kill you, dont block and youre dead, jump and your dead, background evade and youre dead too because it hits in the background toodot underestimate the start up time of this super, its a bitch…
*Geese cannot by jumped in on easily we all know why, COUNTER! Counters ‘crossups’ with the D button too. His low counter is risky though but can lead to nice follow up damage extended combo and an pickup throw for high damage
His Normal uppercut is very very decent too.
*Insane pressure game his game revolves around creating the condition whereby you jump and lose half your energy to Raging Storm, or get Uppercutted and start at square one or get countered, or you block and die to pressure strings, Raging Storm Corner Trap or B > reppuken. A really good Geese also knows to do Background hit Raging Storm if you try to dash around. His versatility is mind game because he can control situations moves ahead, think Magneto in MVC2 (bit nowhere near that stupid!!)
Factor in that he has superb combo starter (crouching B, the light kicks) that can lead to a block combo that moves you forward, which in turn mean he can repeat it. Its a balance between pressure strings and baiting the opponent for the guard reversal that will miss leading to massive damage loss for them
He has other stuff such as the double throw trick but Ill leave you guys to figure that extra stuff out
As for Franco…Franco is unreal, you underestimate him way too much. Try playing a Franco that plays the air to air Jumping Hard kick game (one of the best normals in the game PEDRIOD), does repeated Hard kick cross ups using the D button, mixes jabs into overhead or just plain overhead to get ring outs, uses Power Bicycle the whole round knowing you cant jump into it even once, the shoulder barge > sweep, shoulder barge > overhead or should barge > sweep > fireball pressure strings and youll see that you should revaluate what youre talking about.he seriously OWNS
Middling anti air? Power Bicycle = Godly, Super = Godly, Dodge evade hit that everyone has with the A button (the high kick move) = godly (it even hits you into the background after ONE HIT!!!). His Power Bicycle is slow for a reason, but being only a little slowly on startup does not make it weak, its leads to infinites or 75% combos or dizzies…
You say hes slow? - hes not that slow, he’s so mobile but even if that were the case of him being slow he has ULTIMATE priority and range on hard moves. His sweep is tops, Jumping strong is best in the game next to Billys, he’s the best at crossing up next to Billy again, Meteor tackle leads to crazy mixups and is kind of safe when blocked and can lead to long repeat blocked combos. He is one of the few characters thats has virtually NO bad matchups. He can dash out of the corner without going into the background (I think its charge back > fwd + C), how unfair is that??!
His supers are stupid The first one is anti air so he can do it repeatedly and you cant jump at it (dont even think about the background). His second super is of special use but if you know the juggle thats 75% energy gone…
His supers are the reason he is one of the best comeback characters next to Geese, Billy and a good Mary
I will address you next set of points about Sokkaku, Duck King etc in another post after this one, I just want to check this one firstits cool debating this with you by the way!
Hi the_supreme, I’ve been reading your posts here and I’m a novice in the series, besides I’ve played “for fun” only on the period that the game(s) was released.
I have some questions for your, maybe you can help me:
About the other titles of the franchise, waht can you tell me about their tiers lists, like FFS, FF3 and RB2.
I’ve been playing RB1 with Mary and I felt a little matchup in her against Andy, the “air-dodge” of Andy’s looks like null her game since she cant use any ateminage or shory, am I crrect?
Thanks man.
how is fatal fury 3 a bad game?