Rather then add something I would tweak Parrying so that rather then people being able to simply throw out parries when one feels like it he would have a meter for it. Each round both players would start off with a parry meter which is full but goes down after each parry. It would imo add more depth and mind games to parrying because your opponent could bait you to waste your parry bar. If an opponent does waste his or her parry bar I could see the game turn into a much more aggressive one which would not only allow some of the old school stuff SF2 players love but also provide entertainment for people that are watching. I could see parrying become a less importent part of the game but that imo has it’s advantages as well.
Also, I would tweak the way super meter is built because in 3rd Strike watching people stay back build meter by simple normals is something I have not been a fan of. I’d rather people be rewarded with super meter by being more agressive and pro active.
If you don’t have a serious mindset about it, traps and that sort of thing are fine. It throw s off the balance of the game (unless all traps or foreign objects are symetrical on the stage or maybe if characters switch sides at then end of a round), but they make things interesting. You could just have a “tournamentMode” or whatever with no crazy stuff in it, if you want.
Rings…if you put in more obvious borders such as a ring you can be knocked out of, be aware that this will become a big issue. Imagine OG SF2 games if you could be kocked out of the stage and lose the round. Simple things like Guile’s SP throw or Dhalsim’s no-noogie throw get a lot better, and characters like Honda suffer, because he actually sorta likes the corner. You will have to change the characters and mabye even the entire system of the game (ie blockstun, throw distance, jumps, etc) if you add them in.
I’m a big fan of the SF2:HF approach. It’s not something you see often enough…a bunch of characters with unique moves, and no supers or guard meters. Hitstun and blockstun are all done well, and throws are good, but generally not TOO stupid. There are some tweaks that could be made…if you’re going to have a game with a bunch of pretty unique characters, balance is going to take a hit. HF did stuff well, but there are a couple things that could use a bit of fixing…Vega could use a bit of love, but only a TINY bit. Ryu is a little too good, but again, let’s not go crazy.
I would like to see games put up to the HF test: take out all of the crazy super moves and other stuff, and see if the game can stand on it’s own without it and still be good.
I love the idea of a Parry meter, however since a restriction is being placed - does that mean the window of time to parry should be more lenient? (IE parrying would be easier to execute)
The Hyper Fighting approach is technically what I’m aiming for with individual character-unique grooves,in a way balancing will be harder to tweak cuz you are dealing with more variables but on the same note you can tweak characters more individually if something is off balance. To completely remove all “super-moves” and other stuff would be a step backward IMO.
No, I don’t think it should be more lenient, because it would effect the balance of the game way too much. I mean I could see someone just staying back waiting for an easy parry to take off 50-60+% off the life meter.
I like the invidial character idea. I’m not sure what you’re asking with this topic though. I’m thinking you’re asking for ideas in how 2D fighting games could be “improved”? I’m guessing people have totally different ideas in what “improved” means. However, so far I’m liking the ideas here. Maybe we should start compiling a huge list? Some of my recommendations;
Instead of releasing game “sequels” for games that will use the same type of gameplay anyway (any KoF and SF games basically); companies should make a template for a game and release that. Now, not saying the product should be shoddy or anything, but as time goes on, the game could be updated via internet downloads. So like Fighting Dudes v.2 with patches/fixes/more characters. Same gameplay, but with more content, and broken stuff fixed and the like. Then later another version with more additions. It would eleviate the endless sequels that make the past games obsolete anyway, and the end product would be a remarkably huge, yet balanced, fighting game.
Capcom basically had their chance with Fighting Evolution (and especially since it was on Xbox), but … man are companies refusing change nowadays. This in itself could refresh the 2D fighting game industry, though companies are too stubborn.
Other stuff I would recommend I am guessing has already been done before - such as intead of having “trade hits”, the game calculates randomly, or actually having a fighting game with pixel perfect hit detection instead of shoddy and usually broken “hit boxes”. And I feel that short jumps should be standard in fighting games. The whole jumping 6 feet into the air thing never really sat well with me. This would also encourage more rushdown and offensive gameplay, especially for games with floaty ass jumps. However that last point has already been done in like every KoF and CvS2 … however I was saying having it as a standard.
“Objects” have been in traditional 2D fighters before, as well as interactive stages (sorta).
KI/KI2 had this notion. Whether the games were liked or not, it made “2D” stages have some extra depth. For example, one stage had no corners, where one could continue in one direction forver. Another was really wide, where the corners were far apart. Yet others were much tighter.
Not just KI, though. The Marvel series had its fair share of interactive objects and stages before. MvC1’s bathhouse with the breakthrough wall, for example. Or XSF’s “van bounce” that could extend combos. Alpha 3 features Blanka’s hittable fruit from his Tropical Hazard super, and of course one Mr. Cody can pick up a knife and lose it. Let’s not forget Vega, who can lose his claw/mask and has to pick it up (Same with Captain America).
Um… I didn’t really have a point in all that. Just makin’ y’all aware is all.
Hmm, well this doesn’t apply to every game, but if they were to make a sequel to Cyberbots, instead of just giving the mechs a set of moves, make the properties of the moves vary depending on which pilot you pick. And even vary the kind of engine. I know it probably sounds dumb, but one of the things I liked about MVC2 is that there were a lot of things to tweak while pickin a team. Y’know characters, roster order, and assist. Adds variation to things…
With today’s technology 2D environments can be given a lot of depth and realism, hence why it surprises me that most 2D fighters still have the background as wall-paintings rather than an actual environment.
I totally agree. There’s very little “life” in 2D backgrounds these days. Look at an older game like MSH. Wolverine’s stage was a wooden bridge that falls into a raging river on the second round, and the winner jumps off to a safe rock while the loser falls. That shit blew me away; it wasn’t needed and didn’t affect gameplay but it was a graphical touch that added to the whole atmosphere of the game.
Games like SF have the gameplay aspect almost perfect but the aesthetics always tend to suffer, unlike for example a game like Mortal Kombat Deception which was all about unnecessary extras and touches that add a lot of atmosphere but the gameplay sucked very badly.
One idea I’ve had for a while is circular 3D stages. The CvS games and MvC2 has 3D backgrounds - why not extend the idea and create circular stages that revolve in a 3D arena? This would eliminate corners entirely, which could set things up for some really wild combos.
Of course, there would have to be a way to keep one character from just tapping the other and running around in a circle until the timer ran down…
Instead, I think it would be nice if the game takes into account the force, direction, and momentum of each attack and have the only way to stop attacks be with your own attacks, of similar force and momentum but opposite direction. I guess you can still have blocking, but it should probably be directional.
I orginally was inventing a character that knows pressure point’s and uses accupuncture needles as weapons.
For example he does a super move which grabs kens leg and strains it (not break it) therefore ken can no longer do the hurricane kick for a short period of time.
He does a super move which grabs kens arm and strains it. Therefore ken can no longer do a fireball, or a dragon uppercut for a short period of time.
I figured why think of ways of doing things on the opponent. Why not think the opposite and do things that prevents the opponent on doing their moves on you.
I’m still debating if every character should have this body strain ability or give that power to just one cool character.
In any case I think it will add strategy, risk, and skill in a fighting game.
Didn’t one of the Samurai Shodowns have somethin like that? I don’t play much Shodown so I could be wrong. It was one of the modes called Slash or Bust (I think) and you had to dodge or somethin (I think)…
I like it, but the body strain should be a temporary effect like dizzy. In fact, that’s technically what it is, a localized dizzy of a single area of the body.
What could be an added effect is that for example if you abuse fireballs, you put strain on your character’s hands which means that you can no longer do fireballs for a few seconds. Although that’s really scary and puts a lot of restrictions. It’s just an idea. Imagine doing the hurricane kick TOO MUCH that your character cannot kick for 2 or 3 seconds.
The coding for such a concept would be a NIGHTMARE… but if the execution went well, and in 2D no less (though really polygons are better suited for that), man that’d be quite the sight.