Random s\d thread

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
321

my last useful post for quite some time. Unless other people want to help keep up the thread.
**
countering s\d balance issues:**

ok, if you know anything, its that sent\s\d is probably the BEST strider team in the game. Functionally speaking, its not though. Your missing an AA which 99% of the top tier teams have. Your adding stamina and a meter builder to your team over an AA to allow strider to work.

Since you don’t have an AA, its hard to counter call an assist. Doom pops them up funny and if you try an extended combo into doom rocks, its not safe vs top characters. So you can’t counter call, assist punish. Thats quite a problem, how else are you supposed to deal damage to your opponents assists.

Theres a few ways. Launch+doom, this will cause the opponents assist to pop up rather than upfwd and you can then layer different strings of animals and bomb cancels from here. Great life even if you don’t get the bomb cancel. Double animal into orbs cant be just as much life as bomb+cancel orbs.

Another method is bait your doom to force your opponent to call his AA. By all means, this strategy is actually ass backwards from a normal one. Generally, you wouldn’t want to do this because it doesn’t make sense just to call your assist first in ordered to be countered immediately. S\D doesn’t really play marvel by the rules of marvel. It plays by the rules of “trap.” For the most part, doom doesn’t counter the top tier AA’s that are common. Off the top of my head, doom only counters mando.

Since doom doesn’t really counter much in terms of AA, it would be your gameplan to call him 2nd wouldn’t it? if you called him first, he gets taken out clean. Well, for an assist punish, you want doom to be countered. Because that means bomb+orbs are guaranteed on the assist. If you measure up the life recieved from a countered call doom say from cyke, doom only lost 10% life. While on the other hand, cyke has recieved 50%+ life for doing his job which is to counter call doom so strider can’t use him.

There is a time and place for this particular strategy. When you really understand the trap, you can work this into proper position to cause a pin on the point as well as nuke the assist clean.

I really like when I meet someone who hits the assist button more than once during my trap beause those are the type of people who will get nuked by this. Even the players who double tap or triple tap assist buttons are susceptible. You can actually time your trap patterns to coincide with your opponents mashing. To allow his assist to come out but not be in the position to punish strider.

322

last thing:

depending on when you activate can also aid your trap process. Say you do a trap sequence and want to end with dog, activate normal speed. However, your opponent guard cancels after the dog and that first ring won’t make it in time. Theres a gap right there. The dog doesn’t hold them long enough for that first wave orb to make contact.

Since the guard cancel spot is going to be immediately after the dog, what you can do is dog, immediate activate orbs. I’m talking about almost cancelling the dog out fast. This closes the gap between the end of the dogs block stun and that first wave orb because you’ve activated faster. Allowing for that wave orb to travel more distance after the dog makes contact.

This concept of activating @ different speeds can dramatically change the fight. You can change the timing on guard cancels or allow an assist to get out, but not hurt strider. You can basically time your activations before your opponents assists even makes contact to yours. Ensuring that you will get the immediate option first. Can’t stop the orbs when you do it right.

The big feature about timing your activations @ different points is that you can create unblockables with all of striders projectiles. All you have to do is layer the projectiles basically in your opponents sprite but before it makes contact. After the super freeze happens, you can’t block it. Works wonders with the bomb.:looney:

Now, you can time unblockables with in your trap sequences based on how your opponent is going to guard cancel you. A magic series+doom, cancel dog, orbs can be GC-ed before the cancelled dog. So what you want to do is time your dog to coincide with the GC attempt. You want it to get there the frame they’re free to move.

Now your opponents wants to guard cancel before the dog and sees the hole. Time you activation so the dog is in him. If he’s not in block animation when this is layered properly, the dog hits him for free all day. A wave orb+teleport is guaranteed after that for your pin.

Something like this is extremely situational but i’m always constantly trying to make this happen. I throw so many variables into my trap sequence that even trying to get out of it gets you trapped or bombed up. Theres more to the trap than just trapping, you can also trap your opponents counter attempts which yield quite a bit of life potential for strider. Some counter with assists, others counter with movement but there are ways for strider to counter those into a position where he can do life and @ times, that life gets to 75% in less than 5 seconds.

323

Hey guys, EVO was fun, I haven’t posted up here in a while. It’s nice to see the thread is always evolving with new ideas. I’ll put some stuff I got down from my EVO power-up soon enough. I have some random match up on Zachs site in which Y2J fucks my whole team up in team tourney, just goes to show, you can always fuck up with Sentinel too! ahah, also, I have me vs Genghis. I haven’t uploaded that though, give me some time. Shoultz, next time come to EVO! By the way, anyone coming to ECC?

324

you vs ghengis would be pretty cool to see since ghengis played with clockw0rk for quite a while. Can’t wait to see what you learned because I know theres going to be something I don’t know :lovin:

marvel is too deep?

whats up with FRxi NY? are you guys planning for that?

325

a little reset i was playing around with IM AA. Try it out and check out the damage:

1, 2, launch, teleport behind, call IM AA, air throw, IM AA connects (4 hits), call lk bomb when you recover, do whatever you want as they’re coming down.

Easy to do on Magneto and Cable, damn near impossible on storm. Haven’t tried it on any others yet. But since I’m probably not going to do anything tournament wise with Strider/IM, maybe one of you guys will. Play around with it.

326

ouch, that shit hurts. Even on a character like storm who doesn’t get hit by this combo, you still can 50\50 her behind the bomb as its falling or use the explosion sprite.

I’ve been holding back a double orb combo with strider\IM for a while but I can’t play IM to save my life. Non screen dependent too. As orbs are about to end, s.lp, s.lk, s.lp, s.mk, call IM AA, s.fp, activate, IM AA hits, rejump orbs.

s.lp+ IM AA, s.mp, s.fp, cancel lk bomb, cancel orbs, wait till bomb hits, rejump orbs. over 100 pts of damage. Nukes assists. Something basic could work just as effectively on assists, like call IM AA, bomb cancel orbs, yay?

c.fp, IM AA, sj.lp, qcf+lk is a crossup. As soon as you land, activate orbs the way you’re facing. IM AA crosses up, orbs come out and sometimes you get random juggles, OTG’s or flat out rejump orbs after a teleport. I think its all timing on what parts of IM AA.

i’ve always though that s\im\d can work but strider gets raped in the openers vs magneto. That damn timed hit will beat my switch glitch all day and trying to time my opener to beat magneto is not a healthy risk:reward. If you start IM to deal with him, your stuck with IM\D and no AA. I’m not saying thats bad but you get nuked in the same spots as sent\D would.

327

The problem with Iron Man is that the best Iron Man players suck with Strider and the best Strider players suck with Iron Man. And nobody from either group wants to go through the same headache shit again having to learn the other character. The only guys I’ve seen who i can consider “good” with both are Combofiend, Julius Jackson, and Justin. And they have better options. But lately, if I want to pick Iron Man with Strider, I’d probably pick Sent/Strider/IM. I’ve pretty much have gotten a solid feel of how to use strider without doom anyway. And Sent/IM has easy killing power against Magneto teams. And if you ever connect orbs, throw into either assist for another kill. Or I can tag into IM. But right now, I may want to avoid having to fight with IM at all costs.

328

frame data!!!

not 100% sure right because my means of this was not prefered method which is to video card every move and frame it out. I randomly came across this idea while surfing the net. It just hit me.:confused: ironically, my method is lining up with joo’s frame data which is extremely accurate so I could be right. I’m really not sure about my block stun #'s. I’m assuming that they are directly related to hit stun #'s. I’ll have to think of a way to test that somehow…

some of my data is showing me that my active frames are faster than joo’s active frames by a few frames depending on the move. However, i’m going to take joo’s side because i’m pretty sure he’s right.

*** indicates not sure. I’ll have to do more testing to be completely sure.
**

s.lp\c.lp

active 2nd frame. -joo
+9 hit*
+9 block*
-2 recovery

s.mp\c.mp
**
active 5th frame -joo
+12 hit
+12 block
-7 recovery

c.mp recovery is -6*
**
s.fp\c.fp**

active 7th frame. -joo
+12 hit*
+12 block*

  • 9 recovery
    **
    s.lk\c.lk**

active 3rd frame -joo
+9 hit*
+9 block*

  • 3 recovery

s.mk\c.mk

s.mk active 6th frame -joo
c.mk active 5th frame -joo
+12 hit*
+12 block*
-6 recovery
**
s.rh**

active 9th frame - joo
+12 hit*
+12 block*
-8 recovery

c.rh

active 7th frame -joo
+12 hit*
+12 block*
-8 recovery

Jumping attacks**

should be identical to there ground versions. This is based only on strider. The main reason why most of his #'s look the same is because his lights combo into his hards.

thats it for the normals. The reason why there are always * on hit\block is because of delayed combos. I’m guessing based on experience with the game because I don’t have the means to do it properly. I feel like its a good guess thought but who knows.:confused:

a full dash fwd is 11 frames before strider recovers normally.
a dash back recover in 9 frames normally.
**
srk+p(gram)standing version **

active 12th frame.
-x on hit\block but +x on cancel. I don’t know how many frames it would do.
-8 recovery?

329

A question on how to interpret that frame data:

Would +12 on block and -9 recovery mean that the move is in effect +3 on block, 12 being the frames it takes for the opp. to recover, and 9 being the frames it takes for strider to recover?

Thanks.

OH btw: Hi I’m new here to the s/d forum. Looking forward to learning as much as I can from you guys :slight_smile:

330

yea, thats how you use frame data right but I had to guess on my block stun #'s. However, everything else should be pretty accurate. I used an unorthodox means of obtaining this though so take it for what its worth. I’m certain that active, hit, and recovery are pretty close though. The way I did the block frames was trying to eye it out accordingly.

the tricky thing about this kind of frame data is that guard cancels come into the equation @ some point in time and then the #'s are much different then. Anything other than a light for strider against a guard cancel will get him hit.

331

Sorry, I’m mad late, heh. Buck has my damn video camera, I bought it over to show him some EVO footage and haven’t got it back yet, but I’ll update as soon as I do. Haha, nothing much to steal, but marvel is indeed too deep. I believe I can beat Genghis and that I should have beat him. He made a comeback the first game that was such a stupid move on my part, but it’s all good. I don’t know about the rest of NY, but I’m definitely going to Final Round.

332

cool, see you at final round. I’m going to plan this out with a more reliable person this time. Last time, I had a friend basically confirm 100% then back out less than a week before FRX.:annoy:

we can work out the small details to meet up the closer it gets to FR. You gotta play mixup a few times though because I swear that guy is anti s\d now.