I’m starting to realize I may suck at this game. Here is some proof:
Rematch: Don’t Call it a comeback
Experimental Team BH Stry Doom
Comments, abuse welcome. Pabs is always god tier + psy.
Okay. My first reaction is to wonder how long you’ve been playing the game. That’s not a commentary on the quality of play, it’s an observation that both teams you’re playing in these videos (BH/Strider/Doom, BH/Cable/Commando) are best played under a “battery and user” chemistry scheme, and yet on both teams you’re burning the meter with BH for chip damage for no real reason.
I can think of exactly three reasons why BH should be using the meter on either of these teams when he’s starting out the game. They are:
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He’s hit something. Nothing wrong with using it as part of a combo.
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In the case of BH/Strider/Doom, if BH has an opponent pinned in the corner with Doom’s rocks right in their face, the chip damage from this together with inferno/HOD is good enough that it’s worth taking the one meter away from Strider. If you don’t have them in the corner, don’t use it to chip – Strider can use the meter to chip better than BH can on this team and you don’t really add much to your chip damage anywhere other than in the corner when you’ve already got Doom’s rocks to do it for you anyway.
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For either team, inferno/judgment day DHC something is a good way to do a safe switch on most opposing teams. In the case of Strider, cancel to orbs, in the case of Cable, time flip. In Cable’s case you’d much rather use counter-AHVB, of course, but if you just don’t have a choice, take the switch instead of letting BH die. I don’t know that this one is safe against another Cable but it should be against most everything else. If you’re doing it with Strider, call Doom before you throw the inferno/judgment day, so you’ll get two sets of rocks on them, even though only one is going to be flush on.
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Okay, I liked. If you’re up against Sentinel, throwing an air judgment day out as bait and then cancelling to orbs or HVB is certainly worth while. If they try to fly over it, the cancel will drop them right into the middle of the demon stream – Sentinel’s flight position is relative, so they’re going from a position relative to an airborne opponent to one relative to a grounded opponent, while the demons stay in the same place – which, if you space this well enough, is going to be right where Sentinel’s big metal lugnut-riddled butt is going to have to be flying when his position is lowered closer to the ground. It’s a goofy-as-all-hell trick, and it works just as well with Doom’s photon array (better, actually) as it does with BH’s air JD, and a lot of Sentinel players don’t realize this is possible to do. And there’s basically nothing they can do about it.
That said, here’s my other remarks.
In the “How to suck” game, believe it or not, there was actually a spot where it could’ve been even uglier than it was – you called Commando then hung both BH and Commando out to try on Magneto with a blocked inferno and then nothing. You were lucky you’re up against a Magneto who tried to combo BH instead of hitting both BH and Commando with the snapback and then launching Commando to death. Later on, when he hits BH with the old school airdash combo into shockwave, same sort of thing… if he’d snapped BH out, Commando had like 40% of his life in redbar and you wouldn’t have a safe DHC to get Cable in out of the middle. So for your part, as ugly as that was, it could’ve been a lot worse.
Doom’s j. fierce is good for a lot more than just when he has BH behind him. Use it, for pity’s sake. And in that “OMG” match with Psylocke… good lord, dude. Dash up with Strider, drop Doom, teleport behind her, throw a dog into orbs from the other side, she probably won’t even live long enough to force you to drop Doom a second time. That was almost inexcusable. If it comes to it, when you had Doom left, she does a psy blade that you block, throw an electric cage right back in her face right there. She probably won’t even be able to block it, and even if she can, the chip damage alone will kill her. If that isn’t good enough for you, pick a time when she’s landing on the ground, do a super jump and photon array at point blank near the ground. It’s a got a zero frame release time at that range, there is absolutely jack that Psylocke can do. Even if she psi-blades you and somehow gets you out of it, she’ll still eat the photons on the way down and die. Not the high up one that you eventually did, do it right down near the ground where she can’t do anything about it. ggpo. Not being able to do about three pixels’ worth of chip damage on a lone Psylocke with a 50% Strider/95% Doom and three to four meters is just sledgehammer-to-the-face gross.
Another setup that’s good enough to make it worth doing a safe switch to Strider from BH in the beginning: call BH, throw an animal into orbs. If it’s on Cable, throw a bomb into orbs. There is basically no way for them to get out of there without having to go through a rep of the trap. This is one of the reasons I often think that BH/Strider/Doom is actually better than Sentinel/Strider/Doom. Sentinel will probably do more damage in the early going, but he’s nowhere near as useful for Strider in the part of the game where you really have to do your business and keep people near the ground.
Oh yes, one other thing. For gawd’s sake, do not airdash across the screen and throw a rh with BH after a HOD against MSP. You are just asking to have all sorts of horrible things happen to you afterwards, especially if you’re dropping Doom behind you as you’re doing it. “Psi-blade, CHING”, BH gets snapped out, Mags dashes across to Doom, and picks out his favorite mechanism for launching him to death, probably involving a slide underneath the rocks canceled into air juggles into launch. If you don’t have an assist out or it isn’t otherwise a snap-vulnerable team, then he just combos BH off of Psylocke and ruins him straight up. I mean, it’s bad enough that you’re burning Strider’s meter with BH in what should be the battery phase of the game, but taking your life into your hands like that every time out is just… wowsers scale bad.
welp I’m about to go to my Calculus class so I don’t have the time to give all my commentary, but I will say this…
the way you were playing…you’re lucky that guy using MSP isn’t all that great a player :xeye:
Hehe I’d like to see you play him 
Come to VA sometime…Pabs is actually one of the best in the state.
On a side note, my website is probably about to go away…it was a nice run tho.
Well… for the record… yes, it’s true that these guys are probably about on par with a fairly average Seattle player, and I wouldn’t put money on them against the top three or four in Portland, either (myself included). But I didn’t say that, because it’s not particularly useful in critiquing someone to simply post a long version of “u suk” without any specific details of what they could do differently. And, for that matter, there’s nothing wrong with the fact that neither of these guys is Justin Wong… they’re not claiming to be, he’s posting vids and asking for comments.
That said… here’s another one, just to keep this post useful. Said it before, will say it again: you’re leaving the ground to super jump and throw demons with BH way too damn much, for the most part. If you leave the ground without a good reason, you’re just begging for Magneto to go underneath you and cross you up. With BH/Doom, that’s somewhat forgiveable with Doom’s rocks down there to keep him from doing that, but even that’s only going to fly until it occurs to him that he can call Storm and clear Doom out of there and go underneath anyway. (Or, theoretically, they could normal jump and kick Doom in the head to clear him out so that they could preserve the ability to call Psylocke in the crossup, but since both chars aren’t on the screen where you can see what you’re doing, that is probably not very practical.)
The test in the “How to tell…” thread has this as the first question, but it doesn’t make real clear as to why. But it’s there for a reason. If you don’t have to leave the ground with BH, particularly against Magneto, it’s not usually a good idea to do so. The demons do not give you enough benefit thrown around willy-nilly that it’s worth giving up the low position and keeping Magneto in front of you. It’s true of any char trying to turtle on Magneto, to a point that if they taught Modern Defense 101, this would be so basic of a point that they’d put it on the syllabus: if you don’t have to give up the low position, DON’T.
95% of Magneto’s game in terms of forcing a hit is based upon quick, instantaneous confusion as to which direction he’s going to come at you from. There are essentially five options possible: the four blocking directions plus throwing. The Soo-style reset game that just ruins people is pretty much completely based upon setting up an easy situation where they can quickly and mercilessly exploit these five options faster than you can react to them if you aren’t prepared to quickly neutralize some of those angles.
If you can keep Magneto in front of you while staying at or near the ground, that takes away two of the five options, and if you can keep him at a decent distance while you’re there, there goes one and maybe even two more. If Magneto wants them back, he only really has a couple of options. One of them is to stay near the ground and stare you down. This is the one you are almost never going to see for practical purposes, because the vast majority of people who play Magneto, are drawn to him because they’re not terribly patient and they want to go after people quickly. To be honest, I think Magneto is consistently overrated because of this, and has been for years – people rate him higher because a lot of people enjoy playing him and so he gets more attention and people get more excited when they see a flashy one playing. However, it does make for a lot of crappy Magnetos that you can beat for free just by a little sound defense shutting them down. But if they’re not one of the few that’s patient and talented enough to methodically hold their own position on the ground and try to find an angle, they’re probably going to go to the other plan, which is to super jump and try to airdash around it… which they may or may not realize effectively takes away four of their five options without you having to do anything to force them out of their hands.
This is why BH does not want to leave the ground to throw demons at random. Every time you do, you give up that position and give Magneto free access to his attack angles, without him having to force you you to give them up. Just as him super jumping up without good reason is an unforced surrender of position to attack, you super jumping without reason is the same unforced surrender of position to defend. If you don’t have something underneath you covering the ground, it’s generally not a good idea unless he goes up first or unless you need to get out of a jam.
This is, without anyone quite realizing it, why BH has lost so much faith from people in the last few years. People got so much into the lazy habit of just throwing demons around willy-nilly, that it never dawned on them that they shouldn’t. And when Magnetos started exploiting the free openings, people already had given him up for dead against Cable and were for the most part against Storm as well, so when the stereotypical cruft didn’t work on Magneto any more either, that was about the last straw.
So stop super jumping and throwing demons at random. You’re getting away with that only because your opponent hasn’t figured out how to exploit it yet.
Don’t get all defensive. I’m just stating my opinion from the fact that I haven’t seen this guy finish more than two or three basic LS combo with storm out of all the vids I’ve seen. And he missed many key chances to capitalize that even I wouldn’t have missed had I been using MSP. Anyways, despite what Stilt seems to be thinking, I didn’t say either you or that guy sucked. I said you played so under par that you’re lucky that that guy is not a GREAT player like say…Justin, Soo, Shady K, or Wigfall.
Now for what I saw in these matches…
OMG…you started off good but I immediately asked myself why you s.jumped back with FP when you could have followed up with a j.jp to get the chip from the second set of doom’s rocks. You missed that opportunity a second time in the match too. And then later did an Inferno-HoD to chip while doom was chipping him instead of just doing a safe c.lk or something to keep him in block stun. That got you hit with the tempest combo and almost killed you. Afterwards you did a jp Inferno while calling out Strider from the other side of the screen when you could have sj.JD cancelled into orbs and still got yet another bar to chip somemore with strider…So your BH died. Also, why didn’t the guy switch to save his Mags? He also missed an LS combo this match.
The Rematch…you did WAY too many Inferno-HoDs without being protected! I’m guessing you knew that he couldn’t get outta that cuz that would get you raped in Cali and it even got you snapped out on one occasion. You looked sound when you stayed on the ground this match but you kept s.j.ing into FPs and RHs which didn’t make much sense. I can understand s.j. to jp and lk to keep them on the ground and not over your head but NOT s.j. to FP or RH.
Fiesty Spiral…um…the Dark Thunder was an accident right? That hurt you pretty bad but you played decent zoning afterwards, although you did that s.j. FP a coupla times. And I still saw too many unprotected Inferno-HoDs. MSP guy played better this match too. Although I can’t figure out why he didn’t cancel to storm once again to chip you to death while hitting your BH assist.
How to suck at Marvel…this one didn’t play for me either time that I tried it.
Rematch: don’t call it a comeback…Still too many Inferno-HoDs, as well as s.j. into FPs and RHs this match. Whenever you get a messed up tempest combo by the opponent, you should do commando-inferno-armmegeddon [tup] that might have killed him, preventing you from getting hit by a later tempest combo…that he should have cancelled to kill you. Another helpful note…he was obvious when he hailstormed your assist. You should try cancelling a s.j. into a dashing jp,jp to stop those when you’re as close as you were.
Experimental Team BH Sty Doom…well the first I-HoD was okay b/c you did it in a case where storm couldn’t pushblock to get out of it, but why did you do the second Inferno-HoD? That could have and should have gotten you killed.
One last thing…why do you do a dash to RH so often after the HoD? I’ll admit that I might do this once in a blue moon, just for the hell of it, to catch someone by surprise…say a storm user who predictably tries hailstorm after you finish your super but you do it WAY too much. Sorry if I missed anything or confused something b/c I only watched these matches twice, once at school and once right now, but that’s what I saw. Keep practicing and good luck.
hehe that message was meant for BHKing.
Staying on the ground is asking for it against his Magneto. He does attempt to cross me up when I land, so now I’ve started to do a low dash before I hit the ground, which seems to avoid Magnasty.
Hmmm…I am at a loss on how to keep the low position and not get raped by Mags. I’m interesting in how you would battle him on the ground, assuming he has psy, storm, or sent behind him.
Oddly enough, that one match where I got raped was not the typical way our matches go. My BH is actually my best char against his Mags.
Ah c’mon. That’s what you do with BH (well, maybe not at ‘random’). If you stand there like a huge statue, it becomes a combo video.
I actually meant what I said…with text it comes off like “OH YEAH, WELL I’D LIKE TO SEE YOU PLAY HIM.” But what I mean is:
“I may not be on this guys level, I’d like to see someone else play him.” He’s hardcore, but I don’t think he’s ever left the state.
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He does have an assist. And he WILL assist if there is a gap in pressure.
I think it’s psychological. I feel confident when BH’s on point. Proper character management is one of my many flaws.
He always goes for the OCV
Yeah, it was
Maybe that’s a good thing. It was nasty.
Let’s see…first one to cover myself…2nd connected. 3rd I thought I had him in a combo. 4th was to dhc into cable.
I’m not sure of the one you speak. I was trying to get off another set to kill Storm with chip.
I do it when the opponent has no AA. Sometimes (not in these videos) I cancel the demons into JDxxDHC if they throw an assist out. I get caught every now & then, but I find it to be effective more often than not.
I cut down the quotes to this because it basically sums up where you’re going wrong beautifully.
I didn’t say “stand there like a huge statue”. I said “keep the low position”. There’s a difference. I am not advocating that you remain on the ground and try to block the high-low game. I don’t do that either. If you’re presenting a stationary target, that’s just about as bad as super jumping around all the time. The only reason you’re getting away with one of them and not the other is because your opponent knows how to exploit one of them and not the other.
Normal jump around. Get yourself a projectile assist that covers a wide area for a good length of time and helps cover over your head, and USE it. Sentinel is excellent, Doom is good, Cyclops will do in a pinch but that means you have to take away Commando and probably Sentinel as well for practical purposes so I prefer not to. You have one of the longest range fast pokes in the entire game in BH’s tail. BH’s standing short is long enough ranged that he can stand with his back almost to the wall and hit a Cable standing at midscreen, and his cr. and j. short are almost as long.
You have one of the best one-button, low altitude space covers in the game in the j. fierce. If you have the space to get that off without getting hit before you get back to the ground, you can basically forget about Magneto rushing you for about three to five seconds. If he tries to go over the top of it you can just block high and wait for him to get hit in the back by the demons’ return. If he isn’t close enough to be able to go low before you actually get to the ground, it’s not an option for him any more. And oh yeah, in case it didn’t sink in the first time or two, DON’T PRESENT A STATIONARY TARGET.
It’s not brain dead. It takes a bit of guts to stay in there and do it. But this mentality on defense is what you have to do to protect yourself from Magneto. You keep on the move, keep near the ground unless you get cornered, and put stuff in his way.
From there, it’s best to have a plan in mind to kill somebody. Staying away from them all day without having an active plan to kill someone when you get the chance will not cut it these days. You also need to have a way to hurt Cable without getting yourself shot. (Gee, does this stuff sound familiar? It should – it’s most of the other points on the “How to tell if your BH sucks” thread.)
BH/Sentinel/Commando and BH/Strider/Doom are probably the two best BH teams in the game because they provide all of these things. On BH/Sentinel/Commando, your way of hurting Cable without getting shot and killing someone if you get the chance is the DHC. On BH/Strider/Doom, it’s filling the meter for Strider and having him mercilessly chip people to death. Meanwhile, both teams give BH a very solid assist for getting in people’s way near the ground, so you don’t have to leave the ground much.
BH/Doom/Commando is… well, decent for this, because BH’s way of hurting people is to zone them into the corner and chip them to death himself instead of having Strider do it. However, I don’t like that team nearly as much because it requires BH to zone Cable into the corner before he can hurt him and isn’t going to kill a character on an actual hit, so there’s a higher bar that you have to hurdle in order to win.
I am not fond of BH/Cable/Commando at all because it has no safe solution for a lot of these problems – there’s no assist that stays in people’s way, there’s no safe way to hurt Cable without getting shot if you get a hit on him, and there’s no way for BH to kill someone on one hit. When I play this team, I will basically always start Cable and use BH as a turtle char for the midgame, and even at that, I only use it as a way to throw off most Team Scrub players. Yeah, I’ll start BH against Magneto on this team, but the major reason for that actually has little to do with BH being better against Mags on point than Cable, because when he doesn’t have these things I’m talking about behind him, he’s not. The main reason to start BH on Mags instead of Cable is because if your Commando gets snapped in (and against a good Magneto, I don’t care how good you are, once in a while this will happen) you’re far better off with Commando on point with Cable as your char that doesn’t have the red “X” on him than you are with BH there.
Some or all of this may not make sense because you just haven’t been exposed to the level of competition that I have as regularly as I have. For Magneto competition, I’ve got SamB here in Portland and a couple hours’ drive up I-5 gets me face to face with Rodolfo, Kuan, and JMar. You have… well, this guy. If you can’t see the gap there, then I can’t really help you. But if this guy studies game film or if he asks people on IMs about what to do with a BH who super jumps around all the time, sooner or later he’s going to start doing these things to you that I’m describing. You’re either going to have to adjust your BH game to deal with it, or you’re going to fall into the huge dustbin full of people who think BH sucks because they don’t grasp these things. Better to adapt now while he doesn’t get it yet so you’re that much further ahead of him in the learning curve than to adapt later and play catch-up.
Super jumping with demons is NOT what BH does at high levels. That’s the first question on the “suckage” test for a very good reason, because it’s the one bad habit that BH players fall into more than any other. You will either learn this eventually, or you’re going to pay for it eventually when people figure out what to do with it. Which of those two things happens, is your call.
He does have an assist. And he WILL assist if there is a gap in pressure.
I think it’s psychological. I feel confident when BH’s on point. Proper character management is one of my many flaws.
He always goes for the OCV
Yeah, it was
Maybe that’s a good thing. It was nasty.
Let’s see…first one to cover myself…2nd connected. 3rd I thought I had him in a combo. 4th was to dhc into cable.
I’m not sure of the one you speak. I was trying to get off another set to kill Storm with chip.
I do it when the opponent has no AA. Sometimes (not in these videos) I cancel the demons into JDxxDHC if they throw an assist out. I get caught every now & then, but I find it to be effective more often than not.
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I’m not trying to sound like a shit talker but I don’t think I’d have any trouble guarding his offense b/c his triangle jumps weren’t all that fast.
As for him having an assist…I was saying you could have j.jp (actually meant to put j.lk b/c he showed no signs of jumping) and than dashed back. If he did call out his assist in that little gap in time, as many people I play try to do, his psy would have gotten hit by dooms rocks and you could have capitalized on the assist being out while dooms rocks are pinning mags.
As for wanting BH on point and all that…simply put…learn that you can’t and won’t always be able to have him on point if you want to win your matches.
As for all the HoDs…you don’t need them to cover you b/c you have a long ass tail/jap and demons to do that.
The part I’m talking about with stopping hailstorms occured at the 1:06 mark on that video. I knew he was going to go for a hailstorm b4 your commando even punched the ground b/c he’s pretty predictable.
As for killing storm with chip…you gotta have more patience. You are in no way safe to do that when storm is that close.
About the dash to RH after HoD…like I said you’re lucky you’re not playing someone like Soo. You’d get dashed under into an infinite and/or who knows what else lol
Finally…adressing the whole thing you said to Stilt about asking for it if you stay on the ground against his mags…you haven’t truly grasped the concept of BH tail and jabs. Simply put BHs pokes > Mags pokes. You’re going to have to start taking some risk to learn how to exploit that better. I just wish I could actually show you the coupla vids I have.
BlackHeart
Finally I am among real BlackHeart users! Two questions how do you do BH Infinites. And I have seen footage of EVO 04 some real good shit! But where the hell is BH and I play with C.commando,BH,Sentinel.Would this team be good against A Mag,Storm.Sentinel
team watts is good against every team in my opionion
and don’t bother learning the infinite :tup:
Although it might help you in learning dashes and what not…you just shouldn’t do it.
So where do you usually play at?
BlackHeart
Hey! Anyway I play in the midwest and in the pacific. My REAL name is Melvin and am 19.[ Hold on thats to much info] I play at the Regency Fun Center in california and Family Fun Center in Omaha.13 out of 24 in december 6 2003 is what I got last at the Regency center in CA ! I been practicing alot though ever since then and That was also my first tounrny. I know i need to go to more tourny but since I dont have any parents or people to support me I have fucking work and save money to go to school in California!
Anyway where do you play at?
Yeah I know how it is with the whole working and going to school thing. Pretty much the only place you’ll find me is at Xcape arcade on the UCLA campus. And that would be on a Tuesday, between like 12 and 4 or so, b/c I only have one class that day.
I’ll probably start going to Regency and FFA soon too since my license is no longer suspended. You should come down to Xcape b/c there is almost always people there around noon and a lil bit later. Just tell me when you go :tup:
Man!!, Vidness im sorry i don’t know you but please stop playing blackheart or at least don’t post any vid with you playing black heart, people might actually think blackheart sucks that much. Well, to give you a hand in helping you get better pick one team where you feel that your blackheart lives longer. For me blckheart,cable,capcom is the ideal team for blackheart since blackheart is all about defense with this team your blackheart shoudn’t get hurt at all. Though for some reason you got raped with that team. I thinck there are two reasons why your blackheart is not good, the 1st is that you run to much. You have capcom and cable backing you up, you don’t need to run that much. Go on the offensive, do not throw that many demons and do more air dash. I use a lot of air dashes when i play BH, i super jump and right away air dash, BH does this instant L shape dash. The air dash is great for crossups or when you are skilled enough it can be used for sick rushdowns. The 2nd reason your blackheart suck, is that you are in love with infernoXXHeartofDarkness. I rarely if ever do a heart of darkness, the Big 4 will rape you if you miss one or after you are done remember blackheart does that ground dash at the end of the super(i know, because i played against justing, sanford, juicy G. and desmond). Try using infernoXXjudgementDay it’s safer, even if they get out of the inferno they will get hit with the super. One more thing in order to become better with blackheart use this team BH, Cable, Cyclops. That used to be my team fo a very long time, it allowed me to see the many ways blackheart can be played well. I hope you didn’t feel insulted by my remarks erlier, i said them to make you realise your mistakes.
DoctorVillan
DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN.I take my hat off for That last one where Blkheart came back. Some Nice Shit!
I play about the same I just cant build his meter up fast enough. Hey show me come more footage I damand of it!
bro if you thought his BH is good, you really should come down to UCLA and see me play. :tup:
I don’t take offence to any opinions. I will take what is said and see how it applies to my game, though.
Run too much? Hmm…how does BH rush down the top four. As far as playing decent people, I daresay Pabs is the best in VA. Cheap slut can’t get a ticket to EVO to save his life.
I try to play intelligently…build supers, protect my assist, constantly chip my opponent and make them make a mistake. I would definitely like to see some recent BH videos of you guys and get some other ideas on how to play him.
BTW, I don’t think my BH is all that bad…If not expert, the at least advanced-intermediate.
I’ll have a TV in my room soon and I’ll be putting some vids that were recorded a while back on my computer. (I don’t have the direct feed cords for the recorded so I have to use my webcam)