lol. Double-Perfect icons should be the requirement within the proof pics for this category.
End thought for this thread:
I just don’t understand the concept of people finding their way to this thread to criticize the efforts other people make to exploit online baddies.
I think people are clearly contradicting themselves by arguing that (a) someone may be accused wrongfully, potentially causing forum drama and (b) no one cares. Just take a moment to think about how that logic falls thru.
Furthermore, criticizing people for making “shit” threads doesn’t end shit thread-making; so wouldn’t that be as pointless, if not more more pointless, than our attempts to diminish the ragequitter population? If you critics were so nonchalant and Zen-like you wouldn’t even take the time to point to the POST REPLY button. Afterall, and ultimately, any reply to this thread is only further contributing to it.
^lol stfu
PLEASE stfu.
In order to conclusively prove who is quitting out of “rage,” you would need superhuman powers. You can make a reasonable estimate based on trend, but you can’t be certain. And even if you could be, how does a player who “ragequits” but later amends his thinking get removed from said list? How does he prove he isn’t worthy of such a list anymore?
The ultimate solution: devs make the quitter gain a loss, and the player remaining awarded a win. The only real issue is that an unintentional drop would cost you the match, but that’s no different than needing to forfeit any RL competition due to outside circumstances. HDR (on 360, anyway) already does this with a fairly high degree of accuracy (sometimes the dropper isn’t given a loss, but the remaining player is). SF4 needs this feature patched in. And future 2D fighters need to implement this.
Though I will agree that the drop pics are sometimes humorous. Just don’t turn this into Salem.
Champion-Ultimate-Mega Edit: Speaking of humorous drop pics: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=6372245&postcount=1227
I believe I presented my argument clearly, but in the case that I didn’t:
I presented a scenario where utilizing the blacklist led to you being blacklisted. My scenario was written very carefully, and is well within the realm of possibility of occuring. That scenario presents a very large show-stopper problem with a player-maintained blacklist, amongst others.
Okay, so you have 3 extremely probable cases of ragequitting. Fine. Let’s tally that up: 1, 2, 3. Let’s hypothetically add them to a blacklist that, for the sake of this argument, is completely imaginary. Now, let’s sit and think about the purpose of this.
In order for this blacklist to be effective, it must:
-
Be posted in a publicly accessible location. An SRK thread, for instance.
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Be known amongst a significant number of the player base. A daunting task, and not entirely feasible. But even if you can jump this hurdle…
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Contain a system with which a listed player can remove himself. And yes, this IS a requirement. My domain once showed up in a spam blacklist, and I found the error, corrected it, submitted a request for removal, and had my domain removed. Jailed convicts can get out early for good behavior and positive psychological assessment. My first ever SRK infraction expires in late May. People change, even the 3 people on our imaginary blacklist. They must be given a means to prove themselves “reformed.”
This is not subjectivity. This is not opinion. Opinions are personal takes on matters where no given take is inherently right or wrong. Everything I’ve just stated is necessary for the successful operation of a blacklist. And that’s just for starters. Leave out any one of these three points I made, and your blacklist is ineffective and potentially harmful.
As I stated above in my reply to BigBadBoogie, the real solution is dev-side, and if implemented with a high degree of accuracy invalidates any need for a blacklist. But even without that dev-side solution, making a public forum where players are listed without a voice in their defense IS very much a harmful precedent. In RL, this harmful precedent is the entire reason most civilized countries have justice systems where people are innocent until proven guilty.
Specs broke it down (and to his credit this is probably the third or fourth thread in which he has taken the time to do so, props to him for that), but I want to touch on this one point.
There is no logical contradiction between saying that this system has flaws that can result in people being wrongfully accused, and saying that no one gives a shit if there is a list.
I don’t give a shit if there is a list, as I won’t read it…but I DO give a shit, if I am wrongfully put on that list because my comcast connection had a bad week, and as a result other people will not match against me.
See how that works? I don’t care to read the list, I don’t care if people drop on me…but I do care if the shitty list starts affecting my ability to get good matches.
Maybe a more precise way would be to say: Some people don’t care about the list unless they wind up on it, while others truly don’t care even if they are on it.
I see what you were getting at about the logical contradiction, but you were being fairly pedantic.
When specs (or anyone else) says “no one cares” it really means “Not nearly enough of the right people care for this to ever be effective” and IMHO, its clear what was intended.
Thanks for the intelligible clarification, guys. Everyone makes so much more sense when they’re not just typing the typical (and juvenile) “stfu” and “who cares.” And without supplying an entire dissertation on the topic of epistemology, I think it’s safe to say that we can never be too sure about our possible blacklist candidates–we can probably argue uncertainty within any given subject for that matter. However, the arguments you present are plausible.
Nonetheless, I offered no official rules for any official blacklist. Instead, I’ve simply given you names and images of players I speculate to be early droppers/ragequitters. I do understand that my speculation is subject to error; and if any errors are made, I encourage others to address them. It doesn’t bother me to remove an image and apologize upon learning that I am wrong. But until then this thread seems like suitable home for my new photography. I’m sure I’ll be posting more tonight.
Shoutout to LaChupacabra200 for disconnecting on 1% health, try to avoid him…
The irony of it is that although I’m clearly Hispanic, I try to avoid most Latino sounding gamertags. As racist as it seems, they’re usually the worst of the lot for me. lol.
And yet the funny thing is a players true skill cannot be shown online due to input lag. This thread has delicious irony written all over it. Who the fuck cares about your skill level online? No one. Bitching at people who rage quit on you to make yourself look good doesn’t do anything either unless you can back those words up. Unless its for humor.
2K3 Relived. Btw stop joining my shit if I leave after a few… I’d rather fuck a blender than fight someone holding up with Akuma for 40 matches straight.
-McFly
Well, thankyou for at least engaging with our points and putting together an intelligible argument in a civil way. I do understand where you’re coming from, insofar as I can see the places where you’ve either misunderstood my intentions, or perhaps I simply failed, from the start, to communicate them clearly enough.
Of course, the best - and only truly effective - solution will (hopefully) be made by the developer. That should be obvious enough to everybody, with no need to make reference to it. It’s a moot point though, as A) there currently is no built-in solution and B) according to the latest news (whether they be accurate or not) about the upcoming update, what Capcom are currently planning is to simply add a “disconnection rate” to the player stats. I think we can agree that that’s not going to be effective; as many people have already stated, not every disconnection is a ragequit, and there’s not going to be anyone - myself included - who will have a perfect zero disconnection rate, due to bad internet connections, quits due to unplayable lag etc. and there’s no way for this rating system to differentiate one type of disconnect from another. So some kind of resource for players will still be necessary.
I want to address your point 2), which I feel has disregarded the main point of my last post: it doesn’t matter how much of the player base is aware of the list, only that whichever people want to find it have it available to them. It’s not supposed to be some righteous fulcrum for the whole community to swivel around, just a handy reference for the few who want it. Judging by the knee-jerk reaction so far, that’s not all that many people, but it is some, and that’s all that matters.
As I stated before, the argument that nobody who quits shamelessly will give a shit about being on the list is absolutely true and valid. It’s also completely irrelevant - the list doesn’t exist for those people to see themselves on and be shamed into changing their ways. That would be absurd (although I do believe that there will be some people who will be more inclined to behave themselves knowing that their anonymity only goes so far). It exists for people who want to avoid wasting three minutes of their life playing someone who’ll quit just before the end to have a facility for doing so. This means that someone who is on the list will not have their playing experience affected in any way - they will always be able to find opponents who either don’t know or don’t care about the existence of the list. The only people whose experience will be affected (hopefully for the better) will be the people referring to it.
Finally, with point 3) I totally agree. Anyone, at any point, is more than welcome to post here and state their case as long as they do it in a civil and intelligible manner. As you yourself pointed out, this is a public forum. There is no such thing as “a public forum where players are listed without a voice in their defense” - that’s a contradiction in terms. Oh, and comparing a list of twats on a web forum to the Salem witch trials is going so far overboard that I shouldn’t even need to address it.
I am as aware as anyone that disconnections happen for all kinds of reasons. If the lag is unplayable (ie. constant gameplay freezes every few seconds) I myself will quit the match within the first few seconds rather than spend that time slogging through an unplayable mess. Hopefully we have established by now, however, that if someone disconnects during the final round when they’re one or two hits away from losing, either they’re a quitter or their network has a mysterious and highly convenient vested interest in their BP score.
The last thing I’d like to say for now is that I did make one crucial error in making this thread - I gave it an inappropriate name. Firstly, rather than “Ragequitters”, I should have defined my terms more broadly; something like “Fuckwads” would have been more accurate. My rationale was that the people who ragequit are, more often than not, the same people who shout abuse down the mic and send offensive messages. Most of them are also terrible scrubs who play like they have rotten salami stitched to their hands instead of fingers. I want the list to be a register of generally undesirable players who are offensive and no fun to play with - but of course, then it becomes much harder to conclusively prove that they deserve a place on the list. Secondly, I’m aware that in America the term “Blacklist” has far more sinister and evil connotations than it does in the rest of the world, due to the civil rights movement and McCarthyism, which ruined countless lives and is still a sore point for many. Naturally, it’s likely to strike a nerve and be controversial. Here in England, “Blacklist” is a completely harmless word that just means a list of stuff you don’t like. I should have called the thread something like “The Fuckwads Register”.
BigBagVagina is still the worst sf4 player Ive ever played. EVER!
good old snake. its like the good old cvs2 days…ahhaha!
Look me up guys. I would be happy to rage quit on any of you. Thats my style.
Dude, we STILL need to play, lol. I promise I will only hold up with Blanka 39 times. Then possibly rage quit…still haven’t decided.
I miss the heyday of the CvS2 board, lol.
Wow, I’ve played against “GHOSTEFC” so many times, and he’s ragequitted. It feels great to see him on this list.
ragequtting ftw
march 2k9 scrubs like you for the lose and fail :tdown::lame:
Lets bring it back kids… I call K-Geese!