I’m sticking to Nadeshiko where ever possible, sometimes you just have to burn the meter on reversals, but she’s bailed me out so many times now - there’s no way I’m leaving her on the bench.
Not hating on Marn, I like watching his stream and he is definitely good with Mika but… there are some Mika players who play on a much higher level than him like Fuudo, Hameko or Native Impact. And they have less problems with the stuff he is complaining about.
Last I checked, Marn had given up on Mika.
At this point, its not even about that. Its about Pros endorsing the character(even if its that she needs improvements). Pros talking about the character. That’s what I need to see.
I have to disagree with this assessment. Vigorously.
People tend to overestimate how easy it is to “just turtle and react” optimally to everything the opponent does. You could make this argument for almost any match up. There are a few specific things about this I want to debunk, and then some general things that weren’t discussed.
1./ “Frame traps might work against lower level opponents.” Frame traps work against everyone, that’s what makes them frame traps. c.lp blocked? Ok, now you can either trap into s.mp, or walk up and throw. Unless they use an invincible reversal, they can’t defend against both of these options at the same time. If they do use an invincible reversal, they are taking a huge risk, because if you block or back away, they’ll get CC’d for their trouble. Frame traps are not a low level tactic - they are universal, and work because of the fundamental game mechanics, but need to applied intelligently and with consideration of the opponent’s defensive habits.
2./ It is also NOT easy to read when a good opponent will throw a fireball, because they constantly vary their timing.
I put it at the time-stamp close to the moment I want to highlight, which is at about 3:07. Nuki is playing a fireball defense with Chun vs. Laura (not the match up we’re discussing, but the point is applicable). Nuki keeps doing a b~d/b~b~d/b twitchy looking input motion. This lets him keep his fireball charge while also being mobile and giving a lot of “visual noise” for the opponent to process. Laura soon thinks she has the read on this fireball pattern, and when she sees the twitch motion, goes for a jump in. Bad idea, because it was actually a fake out from Nuki, who wanted to encourage the jump, and easily reacts by doing nj.hk as an anti-air. My point is, you can get a read on a bad opponent using obvious fireball timings, but bad opponents aren’t relevant for tier or match-up discussions. As you can see, while these are both good players, Nuki is clearly able to use visual deception to create an apparent pattern, and just when the opponent thinks they know what’s up, he punishes them for thinking they had “the read”.
Every match-up is 10-0 if you have “the read” (people really overuse this term), but that doesn’t mean it’s easy to read a good player who knows how to avoid obvious patterns and vary their timings.
If you don’t think Chun-Li has a ‘can-opener’, I don’t think you understand footsies. Her way to open people up isn’t super obvious like a Dhalsim/Nash Teleport where you’re forced to react to a possible cross-up and try to defend in an ambiguous situation. Her way to open people up is by walking backwards and forwards just outside of the range of their best normals, because Chun’s normals WILL out-range yours (unless your name is Birdie, and that match-up has a different texture). Chun has the second fastest forward walk-speed in the game, and is tied for the fastest forward dash. Her “can-opener” is to bait you into thinking she’s in range for an attack, moving out of that range before you can hit her, and punishing you for over-extending. If you don’t bite, and stop pressing buttons while she’s floating around this range because you know she’s trying to counter-poke, all of the sudden she dashes in and throws you. Dash up throw is a VERY legit tactic in this game, and Chun’s forward dash speed AND range make her one of the scariest threats in this regard, and it is NOT easy to react to at all. Moreover, if you think you have “the read” on Chun doing dash throw, and try to tech, she can do dash, CH c.lp, c.hp xx LK Legs, c.lp xx LK SBK (if she’s good at CH confirming) or can go with the safer dash, c.lp, s.mp, c.mk (xx MK SBK/Legs xx Super on hit), which is a string that all frame traps into the next button.
Also, once she has V-Trigger, she can c.mp under a a mid-range fireball or to punish even a backwards or forwards WALK/Dash (yes, long range lows punish walking, it’s a thing) and VTC into a full combo.
In general, I think people really overvalue Ryu’s ability to sit back and make people come to him, and assume that it’s possible to react perfectly all the time and never let someone in. The truth is that it’s really not possible, because a smart opponent keeps you guessing and won’t show you a pattern to exploit in this way. Moreover, people greatly UNDERVALUE the power of a fast walk speed and dash. Chun-Li is, hands down, the best character at the ground/poking game in SFV, with honourable mentions to Karin, Cammy, and Vega. This has always been her niche in SF titles, and SFV places a greater emphasis on this style of gameplay now that there isn’t a universal counterpoke mechanic like SFIV had with Focus Attacks. Footsies is real. Footsies is good.
Be like Footsies.
I’m not saying this is/isn’t a match-up skewed one way or the other, because I think it’s too early to assess that. I AM saying that your premises for WHY this is a bad match-up for Chun-Li are flawed, because it wholly neglects the importance of the ground poking game, where Chun has the tools to dominate most characters in the game, and Ryu is no exception.