In the corner, delay the second charged st.HK. Against Cammy, dash towards her before calling Nadeshiko.
Delaying the second s.HK does indeed work. Against Cammy though Iâm finding it too hard to diagnose which version of her SRK she did as that very much affects whether or not one needs to dash. Will probably be sticking to more conventional/easier punishes against her.
You donât need to dash against all versions of Cannon Spike, but you should do it because sheâs negative enough anyways. Sheâs at -37 after all versions of Cannon Spike, which gives you plenty of time to dash forward, activate Nadeshiko, and still land a CC f.HP. Alternatively, you can also do a fully charged CC st.HK after blocked Cannon Spike.
SoâŠummmmâŠI was kind of bored and I didnât recall seeing anything like what I was thinking about. Not that what I was thinking about is super useful but successfully executing it would IMO rank up there with throwing someones burst in Guilty Gear. What I decided to do was compile a list of V-Reversals that can, from either jump ins or special cancel-able normals (s.LP, cr.LP, s.MP), be âeatenâ on reaction by Critical Art. In short if you think that someone is going to both block something and then V-Reversal you can buffer the super motion and visually confirm whether or not they actually did VR before busting their face.
Alex - Yes
Balrog - No; becomes airborne too quickly
Birdie - Yes
Cammy - No; if you block her VR the easiest and sometimes depending on the spacing only punish is EX Shooting Peach
Chun-Li - No; her VR was too fast for me to CA; might be able to catch her off of a buffered jump-in
Dhalsim - Yes
Fang - Yes
Guile -Yes
Ibuki - No; canât tell if this is because she becomes airborne at some point or if this doesnât work for some other reason
Juri - Yes
Karin - Yes
Ken - No; too fast
Laura - Yes
M. Bison - Yes
Nash - No
Necalli - Yes
R. Mika - Yes
Rashid - Yes; the CA even hilariously auto-corrects to catch his roll
Ryu - Yes
Vega - No; CA doesnât catch either of his VRs
Zangief - No; too fast
Testing this was done by having at least three of the âOn Guardâ behavior slots filled. One would be the VR two or more other ones would be some combination of blocking or jumping. This was done to ensure that I wasnât hitting CA just out of knowledge about what the dummy was going to do and that I was legitimately throwing it out of the VR. The characters who have the âtoo fastâ note can probably be caught if you buffer CA into a blocked jump-in attack but I expect as more and more people realize that VR against jump ins is a bad idea that this already marginal technique will be even less useful against those characters. Verification of my testing and/or videos of this put into practice would be appreciated.
You could also option select cr.MP~CA to catch V-Reversals. Havenât done extensive testing but it should work on the 15f and non-escape reversals. So far Iâve tested the option select on Ryu after j.HP and it worked.
How would you perform that option select?
Input cr.MP followed by CA as fast as possible. Your inputs should look something like this: 2MP1414P.
I tested the j.HP, cr.MP~CA option select against Alex, Ryu, Chun, Nash, Rashid, F.A.N.G., Balrog, Ibuki, Vega, Cammy, and Juri. Didnât bother to test against the rest of the cast because their V-Reversals donât have any special properties to my knowledge nor are they new characters which we have less information about. We can extrapolate the results with Ryu (15f startup) and Chun (10f) to them. Here are my findings:
[list]
[] All characters can cause the CA not to come out by doing their V-Reversal extremely late. My guess is that doing the V-Reversal late will not result in the cr.MP input getting âeatenâ.
[] Rashid can escape the CA by slightly delaying his V-Reversal. If he does it immediately, CA will catch him. Even if he gets behind Mika, the CA will still autocorrect.
[*] This option select works against everyone except F.A.N.G, Vega, and Cammy
[/list]
Can CA Cammy if sheâs corned before she does it (due to side switch):
Interesting but situational reset I saw Poizun, a Japanese Mika, use: corner Passion Rope Throw, wallbounce, Passion Press air reset, meaty Passion Press. The Passion Press reset leaves Mika at precisely +8, setting up a meaty Passion Press (+1/+5). Havenât tried this reset in a match yet but it seems like it would be good for a post-stun reset.
Could u make a video ? Iâm trying to visualize it lol and Iâm at work
0:43 I know thatâs Ibuki but god that damage!! Iâm stealing that lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuC6WHS6vMQ
And the scary thing is thatâs not even Mikaâs most damaging punish. She can do delayed neutral VT, CC f.HP, charged st.HK, Nadeshiko hit, charged st.HK, EX Wingless Airplane for ~440 damage.
Itâs not only more damaging but also easier to connect since you donât have to worry with timing a second f.HP.
In videos I see combos and setups where Mika does delayed VT while there are moves using HP in them like this (4:40):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YNro21_MbI&t=4m40s
How do you hold VT for that?
Just hold HP+HK a for like two seconds, or until you see that she raised her both arms.
So it just occurred to me that itâs possible to option select command throw to counter V-Reversals with normals other than cr.MP or cr.MK. As long as they are not special cancellable, they can be used for option selects. Iâm not sure why I only thought of that just now. Anyways, the best normal to use for this OS is cr.LK because at point blank range, you can do a blocked st.LP into hit cr.LK OS command grab and still confirm into st.LP xx Shooting Peach. Downside is that against standing opponents, Mika must spend meter on EX Shooting Peach because LP Shooting Peach wonât combo at that range.
The timing for the OS is finicky and differs depending on the blockstun of the previous move and the speed of your opponentâs V-Reversal. The longer the blockstun of the move and the longer the startup of the opponentâs V-Reversal, the later you should input the OS.
So a while ago I noticed that Fuudo started using front f.HP after raw f.HP, cr.MP resets instead of going for st.MP. Itâs a smart choice because while st.MP leads to more damaging followups, f.HP can be followed up by a 50/50 between LP/EX Rainbow Typhoon and st.MP.
Today I started thinking of how f.HP can be applied to V-Trigger setplay to create additional layers of mixups. I found some interesting results. First and foremost, going for st.MP is not potentially pressure-ending when you call out delayed Nadeshiko, so going for f.HP does admittedly does add slightly less value in setups with V-Trigger. That being said, same-side f.HP is still an incredibly powerful option, because it can cover many options.
So the two setup openers I tested today are as follows: Corner st.MP->f.MP~f.MP, f.HP xx delayed b.VT/delayed n.VT. This is followed up by a same side f.HP. If you choose to go for delayed b.VT and f.HP hits, you can follow up with a charged st.HK into EX Wingless Airplane or EX Shooting Peach for 372/500 and 348/500 respectively. If f.HP is blocked, you can attempt another 50/50. If you catch your opponent with st.MP, delayed b.VT will hit them and you can follow up with a fully charged st.HK into EX WA or EX SP for 342/450 and 319/450 respectively. If the f.HP and st.MP are both blocked, you can still dash forward after delayed b.VT. However, if your opponent neutral jumps a command grab, b.VT will not hit them and you will eat a full punish.
This is where going for a delayed n.VT is useful. After a delayed n.VT, a f.HP that connects will lead to significantly less damage and stun (278/392 from f.HP, EX SP, delayed n.VT). However, the mixups after the blocked f.HP are safe from jump punishes and can lead to much more damage. You can command grab and if the opponent jumps, the delayed n.VT will hit the opponent in the air regardless of which direction they jumped in and you can follow up with EX WA (244/280), EX SP (217/280), or st.HK/cr.HK (181/235) if you donât want to spend meter. If you hit your opponent with st.MP, you can follow up with dash forward into st.MP->f.MP~f.MP, charged st.HK, LK WA for 378/530. If your opponent blocks the f.HP and st.MP, you can still dash in after delayed n.VT and confirm into a full combo on hit or another 50/50 on block.
So thatâs all I have for now. l will try and conduct tests with these setups against V-Reversals and invincible moves to see how viable they actually are. For now, these setups seem âguess-proofâ when invincible moves are out of the picture, and thatâs pretty damn good.
So hereâs a video demonstrating the cr.LK~Brimstone OS I posted a few weeks ago.
So the input is forward lp, df lk, to back hk? is that correct? I read the post above, and Iâm not sure the execution.
s.lp is special cancelable, and c.lk is not, so the point is that you are inputting the c.lk because it wonât come out of s.lp when you continue back to the hk, but what is the hk for?
HK is for HK Brimstone. Lack of special-cancellability is important because it ensures I wonât get a special move on block or hit. The way the OS works is if the opponent does V-reversal, the freeze will eat up the cr.LK input and cause the HK Brimstone input to come out instead.