Question regarding Ibuki and Gouki (tier related)

True

Ibuki loses to the metagame ( chun,yun,ken ) if the top metagame was more makoto,urien,yang then ibuki would have a larger chance of top. She suffers the same way a lot of other characters do, its not " character matchups " that define tier its the metagame and players that do.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Gouki won SBO. Ibuki got to grand finals. Just do whatever.

*Picks Q mashes taunt

Now that I look at that tier list again it looks like it says Ibuki’s matchup against Chun Li actually went up from 3-7 to 4-6. Ever since I’ve been playing 3S before about the end of 2008 it was always 3-7 towards Chun. Maybe something happened and now they think she has a bit more of an edge. IMO she pretty much beats Chun Li before she gets 1 meter since Chun Li has zero combos without meter and Ibuki isn’t reliant on meter at all to do big stun and solid damage. It’s just when Chun Li gets the 2 meters the match goes down the tubes.

I guess that makes sense since she is one of the characters that moved up in the representative tier list. Which means how well the character does in a large scale tournament. Hugo apparently went up during this time also. Before Hugo was considered in the same spot as Twelve Q and Sean but now he’s considered in his own tier above Elena, Ibuki and Alex.

S+ Chun Li
S Yun
A+ Ken, Dudley
A Makoto, Yang
A- Urien, Akuma, Ryu, Oro
B+ Hugo
B Elena, Ibuki, Alex
C Necro, Twelve, Remy, Q
D Sean (still balls awful LOL)

Either way going 3-7 against the number one guy still hurts.

cat and dog Dander, or skin flakes, as well as their saliva and urine, can cause an allergic reaction – sneezing, wheezing, and running eyes and nose.” You’re such a mean old man you. Stop spitting and pissing on everyone.

Putting your grumpiness aside you make a good point. The 09ers (very political of you aku) do seem to think of tiers as this mostly static theory of character strength isolated from any real world results, i.e. tourney results. The whole tier list thing originally seemed to be more dynamic, about strong players who decide to dedicate time and effort to a certain character. For example Hugo moving up to a rank of his own must in no small part be thanks to the hard work of guys like Hayao and YSB right? Did Kuroda and his SBO performance single handedly move Gouki up in the tier rankings? But then static character theory for Oro vs Chun or Q vs Mak has held pretty steady since the beginning of time right?

Huh, where’s this list from if you don’t mind me asking? I personally don’t think Elena should be B, unless her footsies allow her to handle Necro and Q very well. Plus isn’t Remy vs. Elena in Remy’s favor?

It’s from the 2009 Arcadia tier list. It’s a bit dated though; Hugo’s dropped back down to around C-tier since then, and Twelve is with Sean now.

But I can believe Elena’s in B.

That list is like a general idea of character strength. I don’t really know if it’s based on matchups or results or what. But I don’t really doubt it except I hate all the plus and minus crap. I wish they’d just divide it into basically 4 normal groups and then the scum (12 and Sean). S, A, B, C and Scum. Or just S, A, B, Scum.

The plus and minus just seems like over categorizing. Is Yang better than Oro? Yeah sure I guess but not extremely so. Even so you’re never going to play someone ‘equal’ to you because that’s impossible to prove. Player’s are so complex you’re never going to have an even match so any matchup can have 1 or 2 points of swing.

Also who posts here that can honestly say anything about Japanese character tiers in 3S. Maybe like 3 people at most. Tiers in the US are totally retarded. Chun is like S++++++ and Twelve is like B at worst.

If Akuma gets a free punish, you’re going to lose a lot of life (meterless)

If Ibuki gets a free punish, I hope you have some elaborate shit ready

OK, sorry for asking this but could you link me to this new list? Elena being B tier is surprising (especially since she barely appears in matches =/)

The main reason Elena doesn’t appear much in tournaments is that overall gameplay wise she’s like Ibuki. A solid version of another character that’s better. Pretty much the only reason I play Ibuki over Akuma is that I like her left right mix ups with her teleport dash, the fact that she’s a ninja and I generally like her heavy frame advantage target combo based pressure since it just all kinda fits my style. There’s really no strategical advantage to play her over Akuma or even Yang though. Same with there being no strategical advantage to playing Elena over Chun Li outside of making the Makoto matchup less of a hassle (spam b+HK to stop grabs LOL).

She’s pretty much almost always the least represented character at SBO next to maybe Sean himself because of that even though she’s like 9 characters better than him in matchups.

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fighter_3:_3rd_Strike

Looking at the standard matchup based tier list towards the end of this thread I guess the only other reason to consider Ibuki over Akuma is that she doesn’t die 3-7 to Yang. I forgot that people considered Yang a really hard match for Akuma so if that’s still the consensus at least you have that going for you. Yang is a very solid character himself so playing Akuma is great I guess except for the fact that there’s one strong mid high tier character that fucks ur shit up LOL. Either way Akuma still has the “better” matchup against Yun which makes his viability better overall. It’s not like Ibuki has a good matchup against Yang either it’s probably just less stupid for her than it is for Akuma.

I thought Elena was like Chun.

The aforementioned is all well and good, but this is the only thing you need to follow.

http://www.game-versus.net/danisen/grade.html

These are the players the literally MOVE the tier lists daily.

The Danisen matches are the perfect example of coupling great players with “weak” tools, and those same players showcasing how a strong mind game can make tier lists irrelevant.

HINT: Don’t let the Google Chrome or whatever browser translate the page. The translator fails terribly with players’ pseudonyms.

Speaking of Gouki and Ibuki:

Boss’ Gouki has placed in Meisyo. He’s currently in Ouja. I haven’t seen Uraken nor Yuki get passed Mousa.
Currently, Yoiyami is the highest Ibuki. Higa is another VERY good Ibuki.

Please stop…

He’s right in that sense. Ibuki is essentially a lesser Akuma in that she relies a lot on mixups and her various options, but in the end Akuma has better mixups/options and is more damaging.

P.S.- A lot of you would be surprised at how decent the Makoto matchup is for Elena.

People know the real reason is just that no one wants to hear Elena’s shitty stage music

You shut your filthy whore mouth.