So since there’s no frame data out yet, I just thought it would be helpful if people could randomly post moves that are unsafe on block, and what X - 23 could punish them with before they recover; as there are very little recovery frames on almost all of the speciel moves in this game.
A simple example would be that Wolverine’s berserker barrage is unsafe on block, and can be punished with a cr.L or st.L, which would obviously start a damaging combo.
I believe all character’s launcher moves are unsafe on block, and can be punished with st.L or st.M depending on the distance.
I also found that a lot of Dante players like to randomly throw out the Jackpot super. If a light move was whiffed prior to its activation, if cannot be super jumped out of, so you have to block it. After blocking it, a well timed X-23’s Weapon X super will go through the last hit of Jackpot for a nice punish.
Moves that I’m currently struggling to find a good punish for are the supers Ultimate Wesker as well as Fatal Claw.
Yes it does, along with frame advantage on hit/block. Still I think it would be in poor taste to just post all that here. Go buy the guide, it’s dynamite.
All the examples in the OP are unsafe though, you’re on the right track. I’ve had trouble punishing Ultimate Wesker too, just because it’s not clear where he’s gonna end up, and it has a pretty good recovery.
I agree completely. The Brady guide is a HUGE source of info. Although, at some point you have to put down the book and get do playing. It is real easy to lose good playing time while theoretically planning a strategy.
$12 on amazon to order but I got mine in store at Hastings for $20. P.S. I’m impatient.
Oh and also, I’m really used to SSF4 mechanics, so I’m not sure if I’m punishing things right. For example, lets say i block Ryu’s dragon punch, should i wait till he comes down and punish? Or should i just do my launcher before he comes down and go directly into my air combo?
Punishing beams without meter with X-23 Is best done by doing her square jump j.236M, 2H. It’s generally very safe and a good way to make a cross up situation if they recover for the punish. However do not use this to beat out Super Armor characters like Sentinal and Hulk unless your positive you’ll get a punish. It’s best to simply fall and try to counter hit with st.M as it hits twice or throw. Sentinal’s st.S can be beat by doing 236Assist (AKA snap back) on reaction since st.M will not suffice.
Up close use 236AA hyper to beat out all moves with it’s instant invincibility. However use 623AA at a distance to go through beams. The invincibility isn’t instant but you should have enough time for it to kick in and it last a LOT longer, ensuring you wont be cut off late in the animation like the other hyper.
Edit - another tactic to beat out Super Armor with double hit while in air:
Target is far in front of you and slightly below: mash M as you fall
Target is far in front of you and same height: mash L as you fall
Target is directly beneath you or close: M2H
The M2H is the quickest option, but only if your right on the them when the 2H starts. The others still put you at risk while M2H is near instant
The first 5 frames are vulnerable within it’s 24+1 frame start up, but remains invulnerable all the way to the 64th frame. The only thing you need to really watch out for is using this against opponents who you use a beam hyper and DHC out with a hyper combo like Wesker’s Rhino Charge that counters on hit. This would really put X-23 in a terrible position.
All of those attacks are terrible random hypers lol.
Jackpot/Million Dollars is punishable by WXP as soon as it’s active mid-full screen. You can also super jump and talon attack +M to the opposite side of him providing your opponent can’t DHC into a hyper that’ll stop you. If you’re point blank and you have time to block, just do Rage Trigger.
Maximum Wesker might trade with X-23’s DP? Not sure. If Wesker starts this move next to you (and you’re cornered) and you manage to block all attacks, he lands where he started and is vulnerable. This isn’t likely to happen as most people do it from max range.
Fatal Claw is -17 on block. You probably won’t be able to find an attack that that counters this other than a well placed Rage Trigger in it’s first active frames. But chances are, you’ll just wind up missing most of the hits since Wolverine is really high. Seriously, who’d wanna randomly throw out fatal claw, though?
You can definitely beat Maximum Wesker with Rage Trigger. X-23 is invincible long enough to knock Wesker out of it. You have to be careful though because there’s a chance that Wesker will only get hit once, recover quickly and punish you when you come out of the super. I’d recommend DHC’ing to safety or if you have to just X-factor once Wesker’s knocked out of the super.
I actually tested against a lot of projectiles supers. Beam supers generally come out instantly, so you cannot Weapon X Prime on reaction to beat them. These include Ryu’s Hadouken, Akuma’s beam-style Hadouken, Iron Man’s Proton Cannon, Dormammu’s Chaotic Flame, and MODOK’s Hyper Psionic Blaster.
Most other projectile supers can be Weapon X Prime’d on reaction as long as you are far enough from the target. A lot of them are near-instant at point blank, like Doom’s Proton Array and Dante/Deadpool’s gun supers. If you are at point blank, though, you can punish nearly every projectile super with a Rage Trigger, which has start-up invincibility and is safe the second you use it. The only exceptions I could find to that are: Phoenix’s Inferno, which has a large enough hit-box that it will still hit you after you become vulnerable, Hyper Sentinel Force, which of course stays on the screen after you hit Sentinel, and Storm’s Hailstorm, which can’t be countered by X-23’s supers at all.
Proton Cannon has slow enough start-up (pre-freeze) that you can WXP it on reaction before their super freeze starts as long as you’re not close enough to get hit by the cannon materializing. The other beam supers aren’t so doable of course… If you’re really in trouble, like in a chip situation, it may be worth it to throw out the oft-maligned anticipatory hyper and then make safe by dhc or xfc if needed. (Could just xfc to start of course, but post-WXP you’ll at least be in their face.)
Maximum Wesker gets beat quite often by WXP. It always looks like MW is too fast, but apparently not so much.
Rage Trigger does make a great DHC setup if another char has the hyper you need to counter and you happen to have the meter.
Maximum Wesker has terrible priority. Has no invincibility and gets by anything with long active frames or a decent sized hit box. You can pretty much press jab at it from far range to gurantee a trade and if you have a projectile on screen he pretty much can’t do it at all. It’s only really a full screen whiff punish. As long as you have active, meaty hit boxes on screen he’s not going to be able to get it started. Sent can just frying pan him straight out of it.’
Some basic ways to stuff it out with X23 are to just start doing air d+H’s or qcf+L’s in the air when you think he’s going to randomly go for it. Both moves are active until they hit the ground and will trade Wesker out of the first hit of Maximum Wesker rather than forcing you to block it. Which also does more damage to him than it does to you since Maximum Wesker does no damage even when all the hits land. Let alone only one. If you’re far away at the back of the screen you can just press jab the instant after the screen freeze and that will also cause a trade for no damage.
Also remember that even though it doesn’t look like it…Maximum Wesker has pretty bad recovery after being blocked. Even if you’re forced into a situation where you must block it there’s options providing he doesn’t cross you up and hit you. Wherever he starts the super he always lands in a position relatively close to where he started. For instance if he does the super relatively close to you and you block the whole thing he’ll probably also land relatively close to you and should be able to punish with rage trigger qcf+2atk super. There’s a set of frames before he even lands on the ground where he can’t hit you anymore and you can pretty much mash super through that. I wouldn’t really recommend that because the super doesn’t travel across the screen insanely fast or anything but it’s there.
I would say the best 2 options overall for dealing with Maximum Wesker are throwing out either her air qcf+L or air d+H on the screen to stuff it out or just block it then immediately start advance guarding it. Those 2 things are your most guaranteed no funny stuff happening answers. If you block then advance guard it pushes some of the hits of maximum wesker away which is where the brunt of any of its damage comes from any way. You can usually cancel out about 5-10 possible hits of the super with a couple advance guards making it so if he does still cross you up you’ll take like 3 percent damage at most. Even if he activates the super when you’re like jumping in the middle of the screen if you start mashing on advance guard after the first block you’ll pretty much push away most any chance it would have to hit you and usually get away unscathed.
Just to throw this in I wouldn’t really recommend using Weapon X prime to beat the start up of Maximum Wesker (or rage trigger for that matter). Although Maximum Wesker doesn’t have any invincibility which severely cuts its priority it will still beat anything with long start up frames. Unless its like a 4 or 5 frame jab thrown out from long range expect to get stuffed out of your start up. If you look at the frame data it shows that the super is 10+1 start up. If I’m correct what this basically means is that there’s 10 frames before the freeze where Wesker can be hit by anything. The only issue is that you can’t actually see these frames because they happen before the flash so its risky to try and do on reaction. Then once the super freeze has started and finished the super is active on the VERY FIRST FRAME. This is why it’s scary to deal with for a lot of people. If you stick something out that doesn’t have a really awesome hit box to trade or stuff it he will hit you on the first first frame the super starts up. The only way to really avoid this is to move to the back of the screen so it takes longer than one frame for him to hit you. Weapon X doesn’t even become invincible until like 6th frame after it starts up. At least Rage Trigger gets it on frame 1.
All supers in this game have pre start up frames (frames where you can’t move before the game freezes and are vulnerable to attack). Which then he’s using the maximum wesker as a start up punish as opposed to a whiff or block punish that he would normally use it for (well good ones, shitty ones just throw it out randomly). You can’t really wait for Wesker to do the freeze frame for Max Wesker and then mash on Weapon X since his super starts up so fast he’ll beat the pre start up frames of your attempt to stuff him out with the super by like a whole 9 frames. Better off just sticking to safer options that don’t burn meter. He’s already burning a meter trying to hit you with the super so no need to burn meter to hit him. ** Rage Trigger would probably be the better option, but like mentioned earlier that can also cause issues sometimes where you’ll hit him one time then whiff behind him so you basically trade him out of the super and he can combo you for free.**
Rage Trigger does have startup invincibility, but the invincibility runs out quick. And WXP becomes invincible somewhere between frames 6 and 10 and lasts for a long, long time. (Never bought the guide so going off off-hand recollection.)
It’s why I made the comment of WXP somehow beating MW despite the vulnerable start-up. It looks like MW has some time before the hit after the freeze, even though it looks so fast. It may be that if MW is started right next to X that it would always fail. But I can’t even say that as I haven’t tested it yet.
Between the effects it seems to have versus RT (trade) and WXP (often getting beat), it may be safe to say that the travel time of MW is longer than it appears. The only other explanation would be that WXP makes X’s hitbox low enough for the first hit of MW to whiff despite the lack of invincibility.
WXP really does seem to beat MW remarkably often. I’m not lying about this. Frame data is probably not wrong and it can help a lot, but what you can gather from it should at least be tested.
Maximum Wesker has no invincibility at all. As long as Laura travels forward and clips Wesker at ANY point (Keep in mind her vertical hitbox is so high that it can actually hit Storm out of her Hail Storm super while she’s up in the air pummeling you with shards) she will win… and he goes up, down, left right, that super just asks to get smacked in the face!
For Tron drill, you can just mash jab or crouching jab. It’s like -7 or something, so it’s not exactly hard to punish. Not too sure about the advantage on Akuma’s tatsu, but you can always try the “pushblock the second to last hit” method, so that the last one whiffs.