If you think Rufus is doing that, go for a frame trap. Walk toward him like you’re going for the throw, then catch him with the s.lk -> s.hk. Or you can time a s.mk so that it comes out during the c.lk and goes over it to catch him in the face. If you’re feeling lucky, you can also try to get an EX-PC out there while his light kick is out to catch him off guard. If he starts blocking again and not teching to watch out for it, go for the throw.
that’s the only reason. The link from c.LK to s.LK is insanely hard, even harder than c.LK link to c.LK.
c.lp, s.lp, c.mk has no 1-frame links. The first part is a chain, and the link from close s.lp to c.mk is 3-frames.
But you’re right, more people should use c.lk, s.lk, c.mk xx scissors.
Start a bnb whiff throw to make em flinch then continue attacking
i did it twice on my friend and got him to react. [media=youtube]RofadscYGKY"[/media] At 2:22
Also worked on wakeup in the corner. [media=youtube]Hb0ZFualzGU&feature=related"[/media] At 4:05
The sim player was having an off day so dont take these matches too critical.
i just do cr. jab, st. jab, cr. forward scissor because it’s easy and reliable and incredibly hard to mess up.
and cr. short, cr. short is difficult for some people? really… hmmm i’ve never had any problems with it… i get it like 90% of the time. rare mess ups on that link.
Guys I’m going to let you in on a secret that has been known since the early days of the M. Bison forum. The combo c.lp>s.lp>c.mk** scissors is INFERIOR to another combo that is similar:
c.lp>s.lk>c.mk** scissors. The reason why is that if you do standing jab as the second link, depending on the distance, the timing will either be 1 frame or 2 frame. And yeah its not like 1 frame is not doable but the fact it can randomly vary can confuse your timing. If you just do c.lp>s.lk>c.mk** scissors there is only ONE timing to memorize and it works on a cross up jumping roundhouse and j.mk and is lenient with the distancing. I get this shit down about 98% in laggy online conditions. Its the way to go. Another variation of this combo is c.lp*2>s.lk>c.mk** scissors. Its harder to make this work off a cross up though.
The thing is, if you weren’t close enough to do the close jab, then you might not be close enough for the c.MK to hit either. This combo is also a lot harder to do and s.LK seems to have more pushback than close s.LP as well.
I agree with Mike. That’s the best combo to go for on a crossup imo aside from cr.lk, st.lk, cr.mk xx scissors (pretty tough but doable).
You can gamble with the 1/2 frame jab link or you can just learn a combo that will connect if your first hit connects.
cr. mk almost never whiffs if you hit with st.lk. I only whiff cr.mk when I either miss the link or my s.lk is blocked. It’s the best BNB in my opinion. Also if you’re going to whiff cr.mk anyways because of a barely hitting far jab, then you should use st.lk so you can link to roundhouse and get off some damage. st.lk is best. because it hits from further away and you have more options from there than close standing lp.
Yeah, that’s definitely a better combo choice timing-wise. As long as you’re only doing one c.lp, I don’t think that the added pushback from the s.lk is going to make much of a difference unless you’re really far off. I would use this more, but I’m working on nailing c.lk, s.lk. That’s pretty hard for me, I think you might have to wait longer before inputting the s.lk than if you were linking crouching shorts. When I get it once, I usually know I’m gonna be getting it the rest of the night, it’s just figuring out that timing in the first place that I seem to have trouble with.
hmmm now that ive looked at the frame data (hopefully im reading it right) its a good idea to mix up the two bnbs.
standing close jab gives you +4 frame advantage on block, so if you’re going for tic throws i think this is the BNB to use. if you say crossup and go straight to cr.lk you only have +1 frame advantage (hence the ease with which you can DP through or even get mashed through by another normal with similar startup). im assuming its better to tic throw off of a blocked move that has as much frame advantage as possible, so if you did the other bnb with close standing short, then you have +3. crouching jab is only +2, so if you get a blocked crouching jab and want to tic throw, going for a close standing jab before your throw is best I think.
On the other hand s.lk in the combo is best on hit for aforementioned reasons including mixup with roundhouse for that extra stun/damage.
so I guess these are just two benefits and disadvantages of using these bnbs, so mix it up and have both combos at your muscle memory’s disposal.
Like I said, I really am not 100 percent sure on how to read frame data and just looked it up out of curiosity. if im wrong please correct me.
anyone else care to chime in on the two BNBS and their best uses in different situations?
also last note, whats the deal with jump in fierce on block? whats the point of the trial where you teleport cancel? its 15 block stun but then theres recovery and landing frames. i dont know how to calculate it but are you at any sort of disadvantage (aside from reversal) after blocked jump in fierce? what is the point of teleporting in the trial? is it just to practice canceling normals into teleport, as reversal or meter wasting bait or are you at any risk after a blocked jump in fierce?
Hello all.
Though what I read in these pages is light years away from my current skill level, it’s still inspiring to read, and realise the depths that are hidden in this game. So thanks.
Anyway, enough brown-nosing; I’m working on my bison, and was hoping for some advice. I play at a pretty low level, where shotos will often walk into headstomps repeatedly (I tell them how to block me over the mic, they don’t listen). Once I meet a decent player, however, I kinda run out of options. I’m trying to get the hang of doing crossovers into simple combos; any tips on how to get the spacing right? the only knockdown which seems to give me time is the sk, and I have to walk forwards first to get in range, which makes it kinda obvious.
most crossovers are followups to grabs
in most cases u can just dash once after a grab and jump in with MK for a really nice crossup
on certain characters such a shotos, u would want to take 2-3 steps after the grab and jump in with Fierce
Bisons crossups can be really ambiguous dependin on how early u decide to MK / FP
Remember back grabs give u like 6-7 more frames than ur normal grabs to setup ur crossups
too bad doing early crossups to be ambiguous is highly dangerous against shotos who can just dp you after block. if youre going to crossup a shoto its going to have to be deep as possible.
I’ve also switched to using cr.lp, st.lk, cr.mk xx sc kick for quite a long time now. I also find it an infinitely superior combo to the cr.lp, st.lp variant.
For j.mk crossups, doing it too early will leave you quite open. I especially hate Abel’s EX tornado throw. It feels as if you haven’t even landed, and he’s already flinging you above his head.
^ yeah what the hell is the deal with this? It feels like everytime the dude has meter and I get him on the ground it’s useless to try and apply anymore pressure.
will he grab me out of ALL jump ins regardless of spacing or is it just that I’m jumping in too early? This happens even when I think I’ve gotten a deep fierce jump in, I just get my ass thrown back on that mat.
for some reason Abel’s I’ve faced have always been quite vulnerable to jump in games and cross ups. I did however read in the safe jumping thread that EX tornado will beat a safe jump, and this is somewhat confirmed by games I have played against my friend. Still, without EX metre I think Abel is very weak to jump ins
hm. what about j.hk?
I notice I get punished, too, for doing a high j.mk.
I’ve been trying j.hk and it’s keeping me safe so far. Can still cross up, too.
^sounds good, i’ll give it a try. Bisons body is at such a weird angle for fierce, you can probably hit deeper and recover quicker with roundhouse? I guess the important thing is to leave no gaps in after your jump in which is actually kind of tough against larger characters (the biggest advantage about having a large hitbox i guess) and something I have trouble with personally.
thing is, first round is usually pretty easy for me, although Abel’s rolls fuck me over big time. I play against a godlike Abel and he just avoids all pressure and punishes footsies with roll to command throw. he builds EX easily and then its just footsies, which like i said he can avoid really easily with rolls and perfect spacing. when i beat him i play scrubby, walking back and lk scissoring as soon as he gets in range and just getting in pokes and getting out. bison can be so boring at high level play.
right now the main tactic im trying to work in on abel once he has meter is to jump in and backdash roundhouse to punish his whiffed command grab. i think its a fairly good tactic.
oddly enough the best players i play seem to crumble when i put the pressure on, its like they forget how to block, but their rushdown game is seriously insane. maybe its a korean playstyle or something but its rush rush rush here (poongko anyone?) and bison honestly cannot deal with that shit very well. First round is Bison’s, but once Abel has meter it can turn into a 6-4 quick.
Oh. j.hk wasn’t abel specific. Just a general substitute for j.mk being punished having it hit high (blocked or otherwise).
I haven’t played too many Abels online, so i can’t really comment. sorry for the confusion.
Screwing around in training mode. Neutral jump MP can hit far air-tatsu if you can guess the shotos trying to run away during a corner trap situation.