PS360+ does not work, obviously.
KI has always been a Rare franchise. Nintendo publishing entanglements aside (which it seems MS threw lots of money Nintendo’s way), how could you expect it NOT to be MS/XBox exclusive?
Slightly off-topic: anyone knows any place where discussion about reverse engenering XB1/PS4 pad protocols is talking place? Will love to read about it.
@deBoru - I think some people are just tired of this subject being posted on so many threads here. I see how your thread is different and I, for one, am glad that you posted it and I’m interested in seeing what the vets on the subject think.
One thing that has really been bothering me is how some people on this forum seem to think that if you aren’t pad hacking your dual mods you aren’t worthy to mod a stick at all. Some of these people make money doing pad hacks and dual mods for less experienced people so it can make them look like they don’t want simple solutions like solderless dual pcb’s so that more people will pay them to do complicated pad hacking. I’m not saying that this is true. I’m simply stating that some statements made since the discussion has been addressed may be perceived this way. PCBs like the PS360 have opened up dual console arcade sticks to the common player and made it much easier to get back into playing the game without dedicating many, many hours to the craft of electronics. Not everyone is interested in electrical engineering. Many people just want to PLAY. The FGC is niche to say the least. I don’t think that it benefits at all from this type of elitist attitude.
Reverse engineering is illegal, so you’ll have to google a lot harder than that to find the discussions lol.
If you are refering to DMCA, it is not that clear:
“Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections (a)(2) and (b), a person may develop and employ technological means to circumvent a technological measure, or to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure, in order to enable the identification and analysis under paragraph (1), or for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, if such means are necessary to achieve such interoperability, to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title.”
I’m asumming you are an US citizen. If that’s the case, please remember there are some places out of USA, commonly known as “The World”, were laws can differ of yours.
Whistle - Wow forgot I made this thread, wonder why it was resurrected… well I’m not even that interested in this subject anymore so… I suppose I’ll just ignore my notifications being blown up.
The new consoles are both sub par and I don’t care what’s compatible. I’ll be enjoying the handhelds we currently have and my PC for the duration of this generation. I just hope that, after this release, one of the big companies will figure out a way to properly advertise PC/Steambox to the masses.
Enjoy the debate ya’ll, try to keep it classy!
Gee, that’s nice to hear…
I guess we can call the company lawyers in now on those guys who designed, manufactured, and are selling third party PCB’s!
They’re pretty much ALL reverse-engineered.
Reverse-engineering is a borderline/quasi-legal practice. Note that I said, “QUASI-legal.”
You can get away with it so long as you’re prepared to be sued and know what the realities of the law are.
Just know this – you can still get sued even if some court has ruled that a level of reverse-engineering ISN’T illegal.
It was great for the gaming community that Sony didn’t go after the third-party PCB manufacturers (as far as we know). The security chip for the 360 obviously worked since it’s been less than two years since RELIABLE third-party replacement PCB’s have been available that didn’t require hacked third-party (re: Mad Catz) 360 control pad PCB’s.
Far as I know, the creators/designers of the Cthulu, Cerberus, and PS360+ never got sued for marketing those PCB’s. I strongly doubt these devices have made that much of a dent in the sales of joysticks for PS3 and XBox 360; I think the same will be true for successor third-party PCB’s on the PS4 and XBone.
14 years ago, when the Dreamcast hit the scene in the US, a company DID try to market a PS1 emulator for the DC that would enable the system to play and graphically enhance PS1 games on the DC. Technically, it wasn’t strictly illegal but Sony did NOT allow the product to enter market unchallenged and essentially sued the software developer out of existence!
As far as the new consoles being sub-par, that sounds like sour grapes to me.
I made the decision to pass on them this year because of finances AND the general knowledge that first-generation software doesn’t represent what consoles are truly capable of.
There are also still around 20 (older and newer) titles I wouldn’t mind buying or at least trying on the PS3 now… I’m in no rush to upgrade myself.
So yes, very little of the software available for the new consoles is beyond what PS3 or XBone can do.
That said, people are cutting their noses off to spite themselves this early in the game.
Say that the consoles are sub-par in Year 3; right now, it’s too early to dismiss them and call them failures even if people are going crazy with speculation and being really annoying in all these threads…
@deBoru The whole topic has sour my mood, its like beating a dead horse. I trying to tell you what can be done with existing tech and limited information.
We aren’t getting anywhere. You might be a scholar and speculation is your thing. I am a technician, an engineer if you will. I don’t have the luxury to work with “what-ifs” to do what I do I need to know the Theory of operation on something, the Facts. I take what already exist and try to hammer out a solution. You know I love to have a ALL-IN-ONE PCB Solution that has zero input lag, covers every system made aver and is future proof.
Knowing Microsoft, they are using some TPM (Trusted Platform Module think of it as a Hardware version of DRM) laden scheme for there controller protocols that are going to be a nightmare to crack. The one US hacker who cracked how the Xbox 360 security works spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment (quarter mill for a high end electron microscope) and getting in bulk thousands of Xbox 360 controller security chips (Infineon SLE 66PE) from the Asian Grey market to find out the damn chip has built in hardware designed to brick itself if certain very high end hacking attempts are attempted. Like opening up and peeking inside the physical chip sets off a sensor that fries everything into a unrecognizable mess.
source - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/17/infineon_tpm_crack/
And thats the Xbox 360, the Xbox One if nothing else would be equally as difficult if were lucky, if not its a whole new ball game.
The PS4 on the other hand, on the PC the PS4 pad works as a HID device, but other HID devices don’t work on the PS4 console.
There is some sort of electronic hand shake that takes place, some algorithm we got to match up. Find the Sony secret hand shake and were in.
Issue is It takes time to decrypt, decode and crack security and Sony is no push over
If Gaming history taught us anything is it will be a long road before we will see anything usable
If we are to go forwards we need to follow these steps
The steps of the scientific method are to:
1, Ask a Question
2, Do Background Research
3, Construct a Hypothesis
4, Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
5, Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
6, Communicate Your Results
Were still hung up on Step 1.
… And lots of money to test all these PCB’s to death to figure something out.
Wouldn’t it just be cheaper to buy the officially licensed stuff at any rate?
But it’s a waste of breath.
Some of you just will not take it from the engineers and people who actually created the Cthulus and Cerberus how difficult what you’re asking now is… especially when there’s no available info!
Can these threads just be closed? This has been talked to death.
We shouldn’t be on the 20th, 30th regurgitated thread harping on things nobody can change!
You’ll have buy new controllers, PERIOD, like it or not. Start saving up if it’s such a hardship but please stop coming on the boards to cry about how much things cost. We all have to pay to live!
Oh FYI, Reverse engineering is perfectly LEGAL (as long as you aren’t just copying the other guys product).
Its how Intel and AMD copy off each other all the time without the other dragging them into court.
You look at your cooperators item and make a check list of what it needs to do
then you make sure your solution does not look like the other guys solution
As a side note: Didn’t the grey-market HK scene break the 360 chip first? I seem to remember products from Asia hitting the market first.
Possibility, I can’t say as I don’t have much documentation (at this time) on the Asian Grey market and when clone Xbox 360 products started to pour in.
The article I posted was from 17th February 2010. And the Hacker in question stated he didn’t want to circumvent Microsoft’s security just to analyze the security faults of the Xbox 360.
Biggest security fault being how many surplus Infineon SLE 66PE chips that are out there. Anyways if there that many surplus chips, instead of breaking the decryption couldn’t you just use the chip in a clone Xbox 360 controller?
I did find the following link, which was dated at January 27, 2010 which was approx a month prior.
http://www.nineoverten.com/2010/01/27/worlds-first-multi-platform-arcade-stick-paewang-revolution/#.UpGtHsSsh8E
Further google searches adjusting the setting to search with in the 1/1/2008 to 1/1/2009 time frame http://tinyurl.com/p3p5y36
Shows that at least 1 retailer (Jan 15, 2008) was already selling the stick
Why Are people still tagging me… I understand that this whole thing is a big waste of space. It is very unlikely that we will see anything “all-in-one” for the next year or so, nobody cares.
I was speculating for the sake of speculation when I started this thread. I’m glad that you guys are enjoying talking about it, but now that it’s so clear that we will be going back to the padhack stages, there is nothing to theorize or speculate.
Now that everything is out, it’s time for hard and tangible fact. Period.
As for our little tango @Darksakul , I actually agree with your points of view after a successful padhack. It’s very rewarding and I think I’m going to stay away from “all-in-one” solutions for personal projects. You are officially the person I credit for solidifying my resolve in sticking with this hobby. I actually look back fondly at this thread, you made me a little perturbed, but afterwards we were running into each other all over TT and never once did we take the argument we had here and let effect our behavior in other subjects we disagreed, or perhaps even agreed on. So, yeah, I’m a fan of yours, when I form an opinion about something in this industry, I do my normal research and reading, but now I take an extra step. I check the opinions of my 3 favorite people here on SRK: @Darksakul , @D3v , @GeorgeC . I choose you three because, you all have very open opinions that differ greatly in some places, but intersect in others.
I was a little too green in the gills when I started this thread, In fact I can say that, if you haven’t ever completed a stick without cannibalizing a controller, try it. I wasn’t really TT worthy until I did, and I can only say that after busting my ass and destroying 2 controllers. You’re right @Darksakul, we all think we’re hot shit with our screw down “all-in-one” pcbs. No shame in using them, just feels like a short cut. Now, I won’t use one unless I want the inside to look sexy. I don’t feel like I’m doing my best if I don’t bust out my tools.
When it comes to this dance between generations and proprietary bullshit, it’s best to wait until you’ve got your hands inside a new controller. (crying over 2 destroyed DS4s)
At this point. I believe that there isn’t really any more productive discussion that can be had related to the OP and everything else can be discussed in other threads. In that case, can we just let this thread die out?
What I am getting cred? Guys who spiked by drink.
I’m sure it’ll be discussed in China if it isn’t already being discussed.
They were the ones that managed to figure out how to get through the 360 security protocol. I’m sure they’ll be able to do the same here, I just wouldn’t expect it super quick.
Remember, it took a while for us to see unlicensed 360 boards at the ready.
I’m IN China. PS4s arriving at the local underground market next month. I am very interested in the cracking process that I may get to witness at source.