told y’all
/struts
Almost confirmed? Umm no. All that happened is the neutrinos showed up 60ns earlier than they were supposed to, with 10ns room for error. This technically means the neutrino beam traveled faster than light speed. They are uploading their findings in order for the scientific community to find where the error is. This very same team thought they found dark matter earlier this year too.
Neat.
How can this be applied to fighting game netcode in the future?
WOWWWWWWWWWW
Well I had some bad word choice, but essentially I am saying the same thing lol
The fastest we can send data is the speed of light. If we break that speed limit, data can be sent faster
My only concern is if we break the universal speed limit we’ll get caught by the Universe Highway Patrol.
Sir, you were going 299,798,454 in a 299,792,458 zone. Here’s your copy of the ticket. Have a nice day.
2,000 over. Man, how much is that ticket?
[quote=“Axl_m4ster, post:8, topic:134315”]
i was hoping white shadow would op this news info, glad he did.
i’ve always believed in UFOs…maybe now, interstellar travel doesn’t seem like such a bogus concept.
how else could martians appear in your bedroom to do random anal probes on you if they couldn’t travel in ships that can go faster than the speed of light?
it would take centuries to travel from one living planet to another even if you traveled very near the speed of light.
if you traveled near the speed of light, and traveled at that speed for a month…36 years would pass by on earth…but only a month would pass by for you in that ship…since time slows down for you the faster you travel through space.
but 36 years passes by for everyone else except you.
even if NASA right now could make a craft that could travel that fast for 2 or 3 months at a time…who would volunteer to be the astronaut that would man that ship? somebody manning a craft like that would have to say good-bye to family members, friends, lovers, etc…for life! since a 3 month voyage for said astronaut would mean a century passing back on planet earth.
yeah, no one would ever man a craft like that.
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Actually, if an extraterrestrial functioned on a different perception of time, what we perceive to be long or arduous could feel like nothing to them. If they have no concept of day or night, or the Babylonian 60 second system, time could just be an occurrence of one significant change to the next, and psychologically they might have no understanding of feelings like “boredom” or “worry” to be affected by such trifles.
So a long journey is simply a journey, nothing more nothing less.
You defeat the standards of causality, basically you would exist in moment where effect occurred before a cause.
According to Hawking, if you could feel the effects of lightspeed travel you could only realize 2 events, the moment you leave and the moment you arrive. So essentially you wouldn’t feel any passing of time at all.
Neutrinos have next to zero mass and zero charge, and are so small that it’s barely quantifiable, which is why they can approach velocities 99.9% the speed of light; but regardless of their low mass neutrinos would reach near infinite mass as they approached the speed of light. In this case, to exceed the speed of light means, according to the Theory of Relativity, the energy they received would be infinite, which is completely contrary to current physics models. The universe has finite energy and thus no matter can be propelled past the speed of light.
I’m starting to think that maybe we humans are a certain fringe element in the universe, creatures that takes the standard laws and bends them in way that the universe could never achieve under normal quantum/stellar circumstances. Like if we really think about it, there is virtually no way that the universe could “accidentally” create a fully-functioning toaster oven even with vigintillion mixtures of random atoms created during supernovas or other quasi-stellar events .
Then again there is life, and there are “us” so…
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lastly, i ALWAYS knew Albert Einstein wasn’t so smart.
smug bastard.
but even if E=mc2 is wrong…one that will 4ever remain true is his other major discovery…which is,
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There is no contradiction with E=MC2, matter and energy can still be equivalent, but there is a severe flaw in his work if this news is true; the good news is the stagnated world of physics and humanity can progress into new unimaginable realms…
Remember, it’s not really about absolutes in science, just an evolution of ideas. Physicists still use Newton’s calculations to observe orbits, because his formulas are incredibly accurate. In the same vein Einstein’s ideas may be off, but the essence of his ideas is what allowed humanity to reach this next level of understanding.
…Or in Death Note terms- L= N+M > C
Fixed.
ahem
Astronomically large, I would say.
I am deeply sorry for what I just did. I’ll leave now.
actually, even if the ET had our own sense of time the trip to nearest stars at or near speed of light would be relatively quick (time dilation). Just impractical if you wanted to see fam again.
but c is speed of light, so there is incongruity since he is the one that tied the equivalence to the speed of light (barrier), which gave us all sorts of weird things to think about. In fact what you just said about nuetrino’s approaching infinite mass at the speed of light one of them (E=mc^2).
It doesnt take a crazy result like this to refute causality, quantum physics does it fine all on its own oddly enough
back in Newton’s day we had almost everything figured out. Just that thing about gravity the onlye thing bugging us. It took eistein to come up with a framework to approach an expalination, but that just opened up another pandora’s box
there will be no unification hahaa
the deeper we look, the more we will find (heisenberg->EPR debate)
if you accept that causality is but an illusion, you argue against the validity of the scientific method and science itself (via scientific arguments?)
this is why Einstein opposed quantum mechanics (imo)
it wasnt because he was smug hahaa
an actual natural barrier to speed has many odd consequences that have been accepted and many verified (much like quantum in its nonintuitiveness/verification). Be hilarious if they all wrong. Hahaa,
…but not surprising; the closer we get to truth via science (and even the further we reduce many concepts in philosophy/logic) the more things seem to start revealing paradox. Paradigm shift is the natural graduation in science (Popper was wrong), but there is no equivalent to this in logic/philosophy. No?
nothing is real
[quote=“hubcapsignstop, post:32, topic:134315”]
actually, even if the ET had our own sense of time the trip to nearest stars at or near speed of light would be relatively quick (time dilation). Just impractical if you wanted to see fam again.
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I wasn’t referring to lightspeed travel though, just space travel in an advanced but still conventional sense.
What makes his formula so grand is that it still represents 99.99999999999999999999999% of what we’ve seen in the observable universe for over a century, this consistency is what sets a stable foundation for a lot of cosmic models, and the results have been consistent. If there is a loophole, it means that there are quantum machinations that be molded to go against the grain of standard universal events.
Even the most energetic particles on record have gone about 0.9999999999999999999999951 c, so to see to have knowledge of something that might defy this even the most rare of speed particles is mindblowing to say the least.
There is still a disconnect between real world observations and quantum ones. So yes there are virtual particles that annihilate each other first then revert back into their respective states. Also, keep in mind those prior causal effects didn’t violate the the speed of information clause, so no rules are really broken.
The Uncertainty Principle does lend to some interesting philosophical quandaries but I’m in the camp that believes that just because we haven’t quantified or explained crazy phenomena doesn’t mean there isn’t a logical answer waiting in the midst.
I think Einstein’s belief in “Spinoza’s God” was the reason for why he was apprehensive towards quantum mechanics, his wanted an organized system governed my a framework of logical occurrences.
like clockwork…
my post was a bit stream-of-consciousness, but I mentioned the uncertainty principle as a vague reference to the natural limits on obsrevsation of natyre (which in of itself may reveal strange artifacts that wouldnt be detectable otherwise). Following heisenberg’s work, einstein and bohr had it out via a series of dueling thought experiments, the uncertainty principle/quantum was unable to be extrapolated to point where the experimenter’s actions did not perterb the outcome of the experiment he is attempting to merely observe. Such a claim challenges causality itself. Which seemed to become Bohr’s new pet philosphical pursuit. hahaa
it was at this point in history I believe that einstein said “God doesnt paly dice”… or whatever he actually said.
people can argue whatever they want to believe he meant by that
but using scientific arguments to refute causality is in itself a paradox.
18 November 2011 Last updated at 06:17 ET
Neutrino experiment repeat at Cern finds same result
By Jason Palmer Science and technology reporter, BBC News
Neutrinos travel through 700km of rock before reaching Gran Sasso’s underground laboratories
The team which found that neutrinos may travel faster than light has carried out an improved version of their experiment - and confirmed the result.
If confirmed by other experiments, the find could undermine one of the basic principles of modern physics.
Critics of the first report in September had said that the long bunches of neutrinos (tiny particles) used could introduce an error into the test.
The new work used much shorter bunches.
It has been posted to the Arxiv repository and submitted to the Journal of High Energy Physics, but has not yet been reviewed by the scientific community.
The experiments have been carried out by the Opera collaboration - short for Oscillation Project with Emulsion (T)racking Apparatus.
It hinges on sending bunches of neutrinos created at the Cern facility (actually produced as decays within a long bunch of protons produced at Cern) through 730km (454 miles) of rock to a giant detector at the INFN-Gran Sasso laboratory in Italy.
The initial series of experiments, comprising 15,000 separate measurements spread out over three years, found that the neutrinos arrived 60 billionths of a second faster than light would have, travelling unimpeded over the same distance.
The idea that nothing can exceed the speed of light in a vacuum forms a cornerstone in physics - first laid out by James Clerk Maxwell and later incorporated into Albert Einstein’s theory of special relativity.
Timing is everything
Initial analysis of the work by the wider scientific community argued that the relatively long-lasting bunches of neutrinos could introduce a significant error into the measurement.
Those bunches lasted 10 millionths of a second - 160 times longer than the discrepancy the team initially reported in the neutrinos’ travel time.
To address that, scientists at Cern adjusted the way in which the proton beams were produced, resulting in bunches just three billionths of a second long.
When the Opera team ran the improved experiment 20 times, they found almost exactly the same result.
Continue reading the main story
“This is reinforcing the previous finding and ruling out some possible systematic errors which could have in principle been affecting it,” said Antonio Ereditato of the Opera collaboration.
“We didn’t think they were, and now we have the proof,” he told BBC News. "This is reassuring that it’s not the end of the story."
The first announcement of evidently faster-than-light neutrinos caused a stir worldwide; the Opera collaboration is very aware of its implications if eventually proved correct.
The error in the length of the bunches, however, is just the largest among several potential sources of uncertainty in the measurement, which must all now be addressed in turn; these mostly centre on the precise departure and arrival times of the bunches.
“So far no arguments have been put forward that rule out our effect,” Dr Ereditato said.
"This additional test we made is confirming our original finding, but still we have to be very prudent, still we have to look forward to independent confirmation. But this is a positive result."
That confirmation may be much longer in coming, as only a few facilities worldwide have the detectors needed to catch the notoriously flighty neutrinos - which interact with matter so rarely as to have earned the nickname “ghost particles”.
Next year, teams working on two other experiments at Gran Sasso experiments - Borexino and Icarus - will begin independent cross-checks of Opera’s results.
The US Minos experiment and Japan’s T2K experiment will also test the observations. It is likely to be several months before they report back.
Credit goes to The Furious One for the find.
The world just got a little more interesting, and the universe doesn’t seem so far away anymore.
My question is, what in the world is happening to cause this effect? Most of the observable universe runs in concert with Einsteinian physics, even other neutrinos only achieve 99.999996% the speed of light maximum; so what is creating these superluminal effects?!
me.
They need to come up with a new name for these particles. Neutrinos sounds like a brand of chips.
Haduonos? Im pretty sure we can think of a good name
Need some more sources but…
http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2012/02/breaking-news-error-undoes-faster.html
:shake::shake::shake:
Juggalo, sarcastic, or just dumb?