First I want to say that this is just a guess, but I think it is correct.
So what Zangief want to do is to command throw is opponent. What the opponent want to do is jump away from the SPD. In SF4, Zangief could then instead use c.lk to keep the opponent on the ground and then combo into EX Green hand, and if they block c.lk, a mixum SPD(if they block the first c.lk and then try to jump, the jump will fail and they wil get hit by c.lk).
This technique made Zangief 10 times better than T-Hawk becuse he dont have anything like this.
So Capcom wanted to make these two equal, so they nerfed zangief c.lk so he would be like t-hawk.
Maybie I am wrong.
SF4 Zangief is mutch mutch better than SSF4 T-Hawk, so if they didnt nerfed him, maybie T-Hawk would be useless?
I think it’s more probable that the reason was more for just general nerfage and not specifically for equality with T. Hawk. But hell, I don’t know.
I still think that Zangief is better than T. Hawk, regardless of what some of these new “Tier Lists” specualte. I’m predicting Zangief to be mid-tier and T. Hawk will probably be slightly below him. But let me add that overall balance in Super is better than in SF4, and the tier compression means that more characters will be “viable.” That bad thing about both these characters is that their bad matchups aren’t just bad, but OMG-WTF-LOL-Incredi-Terri-Bad!
Not sure why I posted all this in a thread about his cr.lk…sorry.
I haven’t touched Gief much in Super because I’ve been having fun with alot of the new characters, but what exactly is the nerf to cr.lk that I keep hearing about? From this thread I’m assuming that Gief can’t use cr.lk > ex hand to stuff people that try to jump away on wake up anymore. Is this correct?
Its a 1-frame link now, so its alot harder to time.
It got nerfed for one reason…to make comboing harder. It’s not um-possible…hell its one of the combo trials, its just harder, so the Gief’s who will be as destructive as he used to be, will be the devoted ones. People who randomly pick him up and mash out c.lk will no longer get the bonuses…
T.E. turbo actually nails the timing…was kidna weird when I tried it out of curiousity.
Thanks for the answer. So after an SPD, when I jab green hand to get near my opponent, can I still use cr.lk > ex green hand to stop him from jumping away?
Ahh so just linking low lk’s to each other has been changed? I knew something was weird.
I was never the best at it, but I could hit em in the challenge easy. Now I was outright givin up on em and stick to cr jab x2, cr lk, ex hand
blame the devs for the nerfs… people like Itabashi Zangeif were doing too good with his short lk and the devs were BISSED because they want zangeif to suck in SF2…
.in other words they hated him having good poking, footsy, wakeup and combo game…when he’s suppose to be a “traditional” grappler…so they nerfed the hell out of his jumping, and lariat because the noobs where crying over it…and they nerfed c.lk because he shouldnt be using it so much.
They want zangeif to never jump and just walk through a barrage of fireballs and just grab people…maybe Ono and devs were salty for losing to a zangeif player.
Also they nerfed gen’s mk hands probably for the same reason… people weren’t playing him like they were suppose to so they nerfed him as well…the dev didn’t say this but im just gonna read between the lines with all the pointless bad changes they did to gen when he was already a bad player to begin with…
Yes, timing is just stricter. Gief didn’t actually “lose” anything outside of lariat’s hit box and the ability to ‘jump’ - the other change(s) were just difficulty based.
Its still possible, but alot harder last I heard (mk hands), as well this was balanced with Gen’s ability to actually do damage with ultras now. It feels like he does twice as much damage on ultras now…though I still want crane normals to be alot quicker…
they nerfed the loop not mk~hands does more pushback the look didnt do significant damage and they nerfed his ability to build meter and removed invincibility to wake up olga…how does this help him again?
and making c.lk a 1 frame link is so pointless and idiotic it was the only thing that made people grounded when people are jumping like dumbassess…also playing geif online because of the 1 frame link is now even more pointless.
I’m finally starting to play Gief seriously in Super (was on a hiatus with Adon), and I have to agree with you here…this is really bothering me. In Vanilla, after an SPD I was able to green hand in and if the person tried to jump away, I could cr.lk > ex green hand them to knock them down again and continue my okizeme. Now it seems that the cr.lk doesn’t hit in this situation…what am I supposed to do to keep people from jumping away on wake up?
I understand toning down Gief’s damage and health, but why the fuck did they change the properties of things like his jump, cr.lk, etc. Fucking annoying.
in all seriousness, you just have to be more risky now… like stay grounded to bait the jump then jump right when they wake up? I guess you should go for flying body attack or one of giefs good air moves, like headbutt?
I feel your pain, brother, I used to do that exact same trick. Now in order to keep them grounded after a SPD I find that a forward jumping MP hits them, sometimes a fjumping HK or standing HK, but the MP is the most reliable. Of course none of those options are as good as the cr lk ex greenhand. Oh and standing MP seems to hit but I’m not sure how reliable that is, will have to do more testing
Yeah, jumping mp is the only reliable way I’ve seen to hit jumpers now; the problem is that its so much riskier than the cr.lk > ex hand from SF4. I’m starting to incorporate it into my game and its been decently successful…I’m just having trouble getting use to the fact that after both characters land another immediate guessing game starts, with (I believe) neither character at any frame advantage.
Also, for those dashing back against Gief on wakeup, I’ve found that forward cr.hk is pretty good for punishing if you don’t have meter (or don’t want to waste it). I never used this move much in vanilla except to duck high Tiger Shots. Again, its not as good as cr.lk > ex hand, but it gets the job done.
- the other change(s) were just difficulty based.