ROM and resets have different advantages and disadvantages; ROM is solid damage, meter and, like the ROM, gives an opportunity to kill the character. The problem with it is that you have to ‘not’ mess up. Most people don’t generally use it in tournament play because they don’t want to run the risk of messing it up and having to land that hit again. It’s generally used nowadays as a finisher, to kill off someone when their bar is low enough that only a few reps are needed.
Resets are risker, and if you get predictable, or if your opponent is good at blocking, you’re going to have to do more work to land another hit, and if that reset is blocked, another hit. Not many people can block that well, meaning the risk/reward thing gets retarded.
If I had the execution, I’d go to 40 and DHC practically every time. It’s not flashy worth shit, but since I’m putting my money out there, I’d like to be sure I have a solid game. Going for the kill doesn’t mean that you have to go for resets. Resets simply mean a faster end to the game, either in your favor or your opponents.
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Well, the main thing I see Mag’s infinites as being useful for, is that you can go air-to-air, bring it to the ground, and combo it into a snapback pretty much from anywhere in the medium to low part of the screen, without needing something like Psylocke to set it up for you. This into the one area where Magneto is really that much dangerous than everyone else in the game that sets him apart, is that ridiculous snapback of his. That’s what really has taken Team Scrub (Sent/Cable/Commando) off the map in even the best of Cable territories where people know how to play him as a point character very well (e.g. Seattle): if you snap in Commando, he doesn’t have a safe way out of the game and you’re basically left having to run him into the ground and playing your endgame with Cable/Sentinel. Unless you’ve got a very cool head for playing Commando when you have to and you’re prepared to do this, the team’s got a pretty serious Achilles heel there, and Magneto’s snapback is pretty much the entire reason. A good Magneto player doesn’t have to do too many reps of the infinite to snap someone out… they just have to be able to go up air-to-air, come back down, SNAPola. That’s a lot less of a demand than trying to keep it going forever. OTOH, it’s also a demand that goes away if you just bring Psylocke to the table or hit a random hyper grav, too, so I suppose it isn’t even that necessary even for that.
OTOH, maybe I’m not clear on what the ROM infinite really is, too. I do still see Justin doing some infinite, is that not the same one? Super jump short forward, airdash down short forward, rinse and repeat? That’s what we’re talking about, right?
In that sense, being at least able to do this momentarily is still very useful, whereas BH doesn’t really have a similar usefulness. In any situation where you might set up an infinite with BH, there are far more damaging things you can do off of those same situations. The infinite is primarily set up with BH either off of random air-to-air demon hits, or off of pokes on the ground into Cyclops. In those same situations, if your team is BH/Sent/Commando, you’re going to kill somebody. About the only reason you’d want to bring Cyclops, that gives you anything that BH/Sent/Commando doesn’t do better with the DHC, is if you wanted to use Cyclops as a setup for snapping characters out off of similar situations to what you’d use the infinite for. That’s really the only capability that would convince me to want to use Cyclops to set up infinite-like situations rather than just using BH/Sent/Commando to kill someone… and even at that, I wouldn’t be bringing Cyclops in there to set up the infinite, I’d be bringing him in there to do something else that I find more valuable off of the same setups.
In short: BH’s infinite is useless. I can’t think of a single situation where you could use it where you wouldn’t rather do something else that hurts more than it does.
I think you’re stating your opinion as fact here, Stiltman. I respect it, but the fact that you prefer Capcom does not mean that Cable and Cyclops are useless. BH/Cable/Cyclops needs one hit only, to kill half a team, thanks to the infinite. It may not be the best, but is not useless. Unless you see the entire character as useless, since Storm/Sentinel/Commando is farther apart from BH/Sent/Commando than the latter is from BH/Cable/Cyc, IMO.
And you can still find teamsrub at tourneys, played by Randy Lew or Sanford. The order is Cable/Sent/Capcom, Cable with maximum control (the downside is the need to survive enough to build another meter) and out of the snapback issue.
Well, what can I say? Banking on a horribly unreliable trickshot with an infinite at the expense of most of BH’s best space control and leaving the team horrifically vulnerable to snapbacks, more so than Team Scrub with Sentinel starting? As opposed to BH/Sent/Commando, where either main character getting snapped out leaves you with a decent safe DHC swap to get someone besides Commando on point, it’s got space control up the wazoo with either BH or Sentinel on point, and either of the main two chars has enough offense with it to kill or maim you on one hit with a combo that’s actually reliable? Yeah, I’m sorry… it IS a statement of fact that BH/Sent/Commando is better.
If I’m going to go with Cable and BH on the same team, even just since that tournament I’ve already decided that I’d rather have Cable/BH/Commando, in that order. You’ve got all the best space control, you’ve got offense with your first character that doesn’t have to get too fancy to kill somebody, and it’s snapback proof.
As for Team Scrub… frankly, if I’m using it in a tournament, I’m probably going to stay with the traditional Sent/Cable/Commando order. If Sentinel gets snapped out, he gets snapped out. I’ll fight with Commando as best I can, just don’t panic. If I’ve got my druthers and I have to lose one of the three chars and go with the other two in a halfway close mid-to-end game situation, I’d rather have Cable/Sentinel than Cable/Commando anyway. But if that’s Cable/BH? Better to just walk away.
I respect it but, as I said, its mostly opinions. You’d rather play Scrub starting sent, but many other top players rather play it with Cable on the front (especially in NY).
I a not arguing that BH/Cable/Cyc is the best team. IMO, Sentinel is better than any character, in practically any team (I’d rather have MSentP than MSP, for instance). The point was that the infinite is not useless, if you’re playing BH and Cable together, a playable team (so playable that you used it at the last tourney).
You can say that the entire team is useless because BH/Sent/Capcom is better, but by this logic we all should be playng sent/storm/capcom. It IS a statement of fact that santhrax is much better than any BH team and probably the best overall team as well.
My opinion in short: Assuming that a player already chose BH/Cable/Cyc (instead of the logical choice of santhrax) , the infinite may be useful.
Rom seens obsolet? Texas showdown didnt show like that, as StiltMan said, ppl dont use too much in torney cause they dont risk cause maybe dont do that perfectly,the ones who can use Rom, use much moire then 6 fierces vs sent, cause vs sent, starting combo with rom, is a lot easier kill then using 6 fierces cause u will hit only one time, a good reseter iis umpredictble as soo mighty did on Wong and much other good players did, and maybe u saw a lot.
vs sentnel only is a good option to do rom, cause the Resets r more comprised, cause his area o hit is a lot bigger right? in smaller ones is bether do 5-6-7-8 fierces, or start a Rom with 5 his and snapback! Do 40 hits of ROm is more exibition…
U saw texas showdown? lots of matchs they YES use, most the times vs big guys(sent, jugg…)
and vs smaller chars they use thefierces combo . so they use yes, but its more efective
vs sent then cable…
Bad players use it, but Sanford and Justin no, unless they are messing around (casuals against scrubs or whatever, just to build bars for something flashy). Look at the finals of either texas showdown or any breakdown. They only use it when its to kill the last pixels of a character (ROM is the easiest Mag combo by far and it saves bars) . Its all there for you to see. If you want to think that infinites are the way to go, go rule your neighborhood arcade. I have nothing against that. But Justin and Sanford apparently think it sucks though…
Okay… either I’m not clear on what ROM is supposed to be (sj. short/fwd, airdash down short/fwd, repeat, right?) or else you’re not watching the same videos of Justin that I am. Unless this is a development in the last eight months where he’s stopped using it, because as recently as Last Stand last year against Jmar he was using it pretty regularly.
I still don’t see where Wong and Sanford said that the ROM sucks, and that it’s obsolete.
‘Bad’ players use it? If you want to throw up names, I’ve seen JMar, Mixup, Reset, some of the recent videos from the east coast with Yipes, and more ‘good’ players ROM. They either go till 40, or at least enough till they figure a DHC will finish the other guy off. Some only use it against Sent, some use it against everyone.
The main problem I have with this is that since Sanford or Wong haven’t used the ROM recently, suddenly it’s worthless? What?
