Pretty off-topic, but I wanted to say that Mizoguchi doesn’t really play like a shoto. His fireball is too slow to put an effective Fireball + SRK strategy. He’s much more effective as a rush character.
Ray on the other hand fits the shoto role perfectly, even though he’s an all around character.
Now alright… here’s a question, as I read this I believe on Wiki, not sure though.
Doesn’t Makoto actually have the Shotokan style of Karate?
If so… what exactly is “Shoto-style” now anymore other than a character possessing a Fireball and Uppercut move(think you said this Ultima)? I mean, wasn’t “Shoto-style” in SF2 mostly about fireballing until they jumped so you could Shoryuken them as they came in? With CvS2 and 3S, is there even a “Shoto-style” anymore since you no longer just have to jump to get over fireballs?
I do want to include at least a few characters that have the QCF + Button = Projectile and DPM + Button = Anti Air attack in their arsenal so that like I said before, they are easy to pick up and become familiarized with.
And would it be weird or way too hard to do to have a character with a 360 + Button projectile? ^^;
I probably depends how good the projectile is.
But that sounds really silly anyways, I usually disagree with balancing something around execution, not the move itself.
Maybe, but it depends on how you balance it.
A 1 direction projectile using the 360 motion is rediculous, it would have to be pretty powerful to make it worth using. Hence why you usually see the strongest moves in the game be full circle motions.
IMO, a 360 motion projectile would either have to be A) 1 direction and large damage or B) have the projectile encompass a full or half circle with low damage and no knockdown ability to balance out. Also, you’d have to incorporate air blocking in order to keep a character with 360 motion projectiles from being broken on the basis of foolproof keepaway tactics.
I think the community is used to certain execution standards:
Projectiles - qcf, hcf, charge b to f
command throws - qcb, hcb, 360
anti air specials - dp motion (though I believe fei long breaks this, but I think he’s the only one), charge d to u
anti-low/crouching specials - reverse dp, charge d to u
forward moving physical specials - qcf, hcf, charge b to f
backwards moving physical or non-position position affecting specials - qcb, hcb
there are some exceptions to this, but most characters go by it and it’s usually just because the motion complies with what people see on the screen so if you see a special you should have an idea of what the motion should be.
I don’t think innovation needs to be in the controls, the importance of execution is something that separates what makes good and great players through consistency, but I don’t think there’s any fireball that really needs the 360 command unless the fireball is absolutely retarded in strength like a projectile that throws you or something which would be even more odd. If you want to do it though, again, nobody’s going to stop you.
Also just to answer your question, the shoto type I believe is widely used for characters who have both anti-air jumping uppercut dps and qcf projectiles. Though people might disagree with me (someone always does), Ryu and Ken are famous for establishing that archetype in fighting games. The shoto extends to a lot of games and has changed somewhat as games play with the idea, but you can still see them in popular characters from other franchises like Kyo, Iori and Shingo (?) from KoF, Robert and Yuri from AoF, Ryo from FF, Sol and Ky from GG and probably a bunch of other games if you just take the time to look. Funny thing about this is Sean is considered a shoto clone, but has no standard fireball unless you pick it as his super art, but shoto is really just a familiar label for something everyone should be used to. They should have both qcf and dp commands and should hint at the movelist that isn’t always known by the player when they first pick up a game.
To add to that Makoto isn’t a shoto, she’s only mistaken as a shoto by people because she also wears a gi similar to your typical shoto character. Her martial arts is Rindoukan Karate.
No, you’re wrong about this one.
At the top level, the difference in execution is basically negligible. The real difference is their mental game, not physical one.
to the op: you do know why games require a whole TEAM of workers-- graphic designers, testers, code developers, game theory designers, animation designers, etc?
if you intend to do all of this on your own, I wish you luck. If you intend to get other people to do the other team parts without getting paid, I wish you even more luck.
yer better off trying to get a job in a video game company doing video game design.
Yes, very much am aware of how many people it takes as currently 'm part of a project as an artist and we only have 2-3 people.
Like I said, this is just a basis for discussion so I can put together a design doc and pitch it… hopefully I can actually make it.
You didn’t understand what I wrote, it’s the difference between a mid level player and a top level player. Sometimes what hurts a gamer most isn’t their ability to think through situations, it’s to execute it, but the point of my sentence wasn’t that, it was just to be an example that you’ll just end up having people do stuff like tachi 360 fireballs like they were qcf fireballs, but because of the motion, the fireball would technically be stronger and the execution behind it would be meaningless.
Jaded: I’m not sure about where you live, but from experience, trying to find a game design position in any company is like winning the lottery here, especially with little to no experience. You might have more of a chance visiting igda or something and speaking with local developers you might meet that might in some way really need a designer, but it’s probably one of the harder positions to land, especially in Canada. Indie projects are a great place to start for would be game designers that don’t want to go into the art, sound or programming side of things, but either way making it as a game designer is horribly hard, at least in Canada.
Alright, so far ‘ve tweaked the super system a lot, now instead of one groove using one meter while the other uses three they both now have one and the set up is like the GG system. Each different groove will have its’ own special uses(Dodge, manually charging the meter, etc) and each special ability will use x% of the meter and supers will use 50%(will probably bump the ultimate supers to 75-100%). 'm thinking of removing the Dedications(read stat changes) in favor of going the 3S route with pick one super, but regardless of what super you pick(as you’d have access to the ultimate moves no matter what super you pick) you could use it twice with a full meter. This takes away from the customization but adds possibly a familiar feel, especially to 3Ss. Not sure if 'm going to do this or not.
Also, 'm going with the Quick Attack, Punch, Kick, Hard Attack and Throw buttons. I think this way is best as I want to keep a lot of options and I think the 6 button set up wasn’t enough. Now you may be thinking, you only listed 5 buttons, well the Throw button will be used universally for things. Throw by itself or with a F/B input will do normal throws, T + QA can do one thing, T + HA can do another and so on and so forth. Special Throws, Super Throws and Combo Throws can be performed with a motion + T and another button, just like a command throw is 360 + P.
Also, by going through the moveset and balancing a little, 've noticed 've put at least 3 characters who can link a single move together with multiple inputs, like Iori’s Wild Flower for example, and can be changed up in various ways.
Think it’s a good idea to have multiple characters who can mix up and delay link things?
That’s a really good read, thanks for posting it. And I already have a few things set in mind that were listed…
All characters will have the following a ground and air dash, a sweep, an overhead and possibly a launcher, ground and air throws and combination throws… may or may not include an air recovery.
I didn’t want to take the Burst idea at all, but I was including a guard meter that now that I read that, may include a tug of war system. I like the increased gravity idea as well and while not Roman Cancels and False Roman Cancels, moves can cancel into other moves.
One idea I had quite a while ago that I dropped was called a “Delayed Super Combo” where you could do a super and hold the attack button down rather than just press it, and the super would come out and drain the meter a % for every hit that landed. At anytime during the super before it ended you could release the button and your character would stop the super and throw out the attack of the button used. That could lead into another combo and then if you inputted the same super as used before it would restart the super where it left off and use the rest of the meter that it didn’t use or you could use a different super but for double the cost. An example would be like for Ken in CvS2 in C groove, so 3 levels of super(total 300% meter) and all supers using 1 level(100%) unless they were max only.
Ken does cLK cLK Shoryu Reppa and holds the FP button until the Shoryu Reppa did say 5 hits then releases the punch button to throw out a FP and then could go into another combo and then either reperform the Shoryu Reppa to finish it off or perform a Shinryuken.
Granted… Ken isn’t the best example and the system was based around the Level 2 cancel into Level 1 but my idea was to extend it out, because it could have lead to a string of say start a 10 hit super, cancel it at the 5 hit(50% meter being used), perform a combo, reinput the super for 4 more hits(90% now used), perform a combo then do a different super for a total usage of 290% meter and big damage.
But… with the direction I wanted to go with a more 3S/CvS2/GG feel and pacing I opted to scrap it as it seemed too powerful and to make hit damage drop more per each hit would make it worthless to use.