Planning for a game

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
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Hey guys, new here to Shoryuken forums but not new to fighters, though to be honest 'm nowhere near a hardcore player, 'm about average at best in CvS2, SSBB, 3S and SF2 and have played a bit of GG and have Melty Blood on my PC.

Point of this is despite my lack of hardcoreness I am getting into a project to help create a fighting game('m an artist and not a designer but have always wanted to make a fighting game) so 'm looking for discussion and suggestions on how to make something new and easy to pick up but hard to master, and something that will be different from what’s out right now and won’t focus on just a handful of characters in tournament play.

Anyway so…game idea I have in mind… right now it’s just a few character pics and docs won’t include story or anything, just specific points since it is in very early production.

The two biggest things I want to do is a) give players a larger measure of customability before and during matches and b) make every character worth playing and able to compete.

For point b, I want a cast diverse enough with each character having a different set of options to successfully combat everyone. I know not everyone can be equal or it makes for a dull game, but I want every character to have a set of abilities and options that make them dangerous in both an extremely skilled and a semi skilled players hands, if that’s at all possible. As I said 'm no hardcore player and I know Yun, Chun, Ken, Bison, Blanka, Sakura, Cable, Sentinel and Magneto players are all damn good at the game they play but I would really like to see this game lead to tournament play where a large cast of characters are used by a large cast of players with various levels of skill. My goal is to have characters with move sets and options that will feel familiar but be different and even break some of the cliches, maybe in just small ways like the wrestler character not being a huge buff guy or a luchador, but small steps can lead to big changes.

As far as a is concerned… by customability I mean to include a large color palette for the characters(20+ colors), a pre-set stat change option(raising STR/DEF and lowering SPD/AGI, etc), two different “groove” type systems(more on that later) and a combo system that supports throws as being part of it.

So those are my biggest plans for this game… however some input 'd like…

I want the pacing to be somewhere between 3S and Guilty Gear… where it can be slow and tactical, playing footsies and such to open up opportunities or it can be quick and flashy where it’s a barrage of movement.

Also… the “groove” type systems… using only two, one based on defense(C Groove from CvS2 basically but with one meter) or offense(combination of S and N grooves from CvS2). However 'm torn between using those two or using a 3S type system… pick one super(though have access to 1-2 ultimate moves when meter is maxed out) that has 1-3 bars of varying length.

So any ideas or suggestions would be cool… not going to post up any specifics yet as it’s still a long way out from even thinking about production. Thank you for any help, especially since as I previously said 'm not extremely well versed in fighting game mechanics.

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holy shit small text painful to read :frowning:

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ahhhhh my eyes!!!

real talk seems interesting though.

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Nice idea:woot:. But besides this edit the text, so the other peeps can read. You already have 2 victims I just happen to have good eyes.

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Sorry for the font, better?

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Indeed.

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don’t let whiffing build meter and reset super gauge at the beginning of the match?

More importantly, make a cast of characters and a game that looks interesting and fun to play. A game needs to be fun to play so that people will actually play it.

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That’s actually one of my main goals to have a cast that looks interesting and different. One of the characters is going to actually be two characters in one, where by performing a certain move they will transform from a Ryu type character to a charge character. Also the “big brute” of the game isn’t going to be anything like Hugo, Zangief, Potemkin, etc as his specials are going to be centered around pumping himself up… so while he’ll be really strong or have great defense, his avenues of attacking with his only special move will be limited.

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Hi, welcome.

Don’t do that. We don’t need another Melty Blood.

That’s more like CVS2. Have you heard of Akatsuki Blitzkampf before? Play it because it’s pretty much exactly what you described.

IMO, it’s best when you have plenty of options with your meter. (See KoF series, 3S, MvC2).

Good luck.

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Put in 4-5 shoto people lol

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No not heard of Akatsuki at all, what is it for?

Is Melty Blood a bad game to pull ideas from? I do kinda dig having lots of colors for a character but I don’t want the universal play style of MB(every character having the exact same motions… granted tons of characters in SF have QCF + P but MB -every- character is QCF/B, HCF, DPF, DPB, and Down Down).

I was actually thinking of doing a 3 “groove” system where the first two would be as I described and the 3rd being like 3S… but 3S doesn’t have any “groove” specific abilities as 'd rather not take parrying and put it into my game(granted 'm taking a lot of ideas from various games but I don’t want to blatantly rip off, y’know?). I would think if I made a 3S like meter as the third “groove” then it would be rarely used, as I don’t think 'm planning on any EX moves.

Maybe just mash all of it into one single meter? But then there would be too much clutter I think…

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Akatsuki BK is available for PC and arcade.

It’s also incredibly awesome.

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What do you guys think about expanding on a Geese like character, by making a character have counters but many more of them? I don’t have descriptions for all of them(as really they are self explanatory) except the Counter Super ability… though I may remove the Counter Throw as… well there’s Tech Throws and such.

Counter High -
Counter Mid -
Counter Low -
Counter Air -
Counter Throw -
Counter Super - Strangest yet potentially most effective super attack. If performed after an opponent’s super is executed but before it hits, she goes into a weakened stance for a moment. After she raises herself from the ground she immediately performs the super attack that was just used on her(or a specially created super… don’t know yet) against her opponent with an additional percentage of damage depending on her current amount of life. This super can only be used with a full stock of super meter but can be used against any super in the game, regardless of range or type.

Basically… opponent does super, she does Counter Super, opponent’s super connects with her then she performs the counter

'm not sure if this would be too broken as I would want to include the ability to use this against projectile supers but maybe make it sort of like an auto combo where she would dash forward a certain distance to try and catch her opponent in the counter. That way it could be used to pass through projectile supers used to chip kill her… but 'm not 100% sure of how strong I want this to be.

Also wondering if I should throw in a Counter Projectile… would that giver her too many options?

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Here’s the funny thing, you’re designing a pure counter character and that would mean that the character will have a lot of trouble without good offensive/defensive normals as I don’t believe you’re going to try and create a character devoid of offensive moves because then it would just be stupid (hit once or guard damage once and then stop playing = auto win in that case). Also in the case of counter supers it really depends on how the game will play. If characters can reliably hit confirm into supers, a counter super would be useless. As a concept you can try, but personally I feel like from a character design standpoint, the character will sound extremely powerful on paper, but will have tons of balancing issues for a long time and even then people might not like or find her viable.

Just to let you know though, this isn’t to discourage you from trying, I’ve played around with the idea of trying to do that as well, making a more or less almost pure counter character, but then found that you’re going to get stuck in a position where 99.9% of the possible audience for your game will probably only play her one way and that’s purely defensive, poke and defend, blocking strings into delayed counters at max distance and all this other shit and then you’ll have that 0.1% or less trying to play her offensively and maybe 0.1% of that audience might turn out to be like RX and your character design might turn into like some super technical but flashy as hell offensive character (not likely as even the design for Urien which I praise all to hell at the brilliance of how open his design was and how much of a fluke it probably was). It’ll be hard, but if you’re up for the challenge then go for it. One thing though is to play through matches in your head first. You’ll notice that most characters with counters can’t abuse them or even use them really because it’s difficult to read just what your opponent will want to do when both players are evenly matched and most of the time if they know, the risk isn’t worth the reward and if the reward is higher than the risk, it might degrade the game down to something else. Just remember that you want both players to have fun with whatever characters they’re playing and playing against. If you force the player to play completely out of style of both the character and what the person wants to play as (like SF4 Zangief vs 90% of SF4’s roster with a few counter or style designs that don’t have to change much to fight him) then you have a bad balance of character design or mechanic associated with a character.

Anyways long ass post from me as always, I love discussing character designs and stuff and I always like trying to make something new and unique. Probably the most exciting and fun part of being (or trying to be) a designer.

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Thanks for the advice and such and I understand where you’re going. To make my intents more clear though she won’t be pure counter(as in that’s all she’ll have), she will have offensive and defense moves that aren’t counter attacks(think Geese and Rock) and I want to make her so that she can go an entire match without using a single counter(in tourny play in CvS2 if I see a Geese player, they have rarely used a counter) however her other moves, whether they are normals or specials can be used to bait certain attacks that can be countered. I was also teasing on the idea that maybe a handful of her normal moves can be canceled into counters… like say a heavy recovery standing HK could be canceled on whiff, hit or block and when the standing HK is used on the right character it will only leave a couple of attack options that they could use to punish… which could then be countered accordingly.

I don’t think 'm going as far as to give her a projectile like Rock/Geese, though I am planning on the button input super(Deadly Rave) and giving her probably some dashing attacks… maybe even making her a charge character but the counters would all be circle motions.

As far as hit confirm for supers they will be definitely included so it will lessen the strength of Counter Super but it would still be pretty valuable in situations where a player is going for a chip kill with a super or in situations where she can bait a super from a further distance away by doing a somewhat laggy move. Though I was also kind of thinking of having the Counter Super be like Hugo’s Giga, one frame start up so if an opponent’s timing is off just a bit when they activate their super you could still possibly react.

Though truth be told 'm not totally sure.

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Bit of info on the big bruiser character… going with a very different direction for him, especially since he has no command throws, leaving his name out.

Wide Punch - His single attacking special move, designed to function in various situations. The light version of this attack causes him to swing a wide hooking punch into the air to ward off airborne opponents, the medium offers a short stepped dashing punch forward and the heavy brings down a overhooked punch towards the ground to deal with smaller targets.
Build Strength - Boosts the damage inflicted by all attacks by 5%, can be performed twice in one round.
Build Defense - Negates the damage received by all attacks by 5%, can be performed three times in one round.
Build Speed - Boosts movement speed by 5%, can be performed four times in one round.

Mindless Rampage - He unleases a barrage of his standing punches ending with each version of his Wide Punch as he charges across the screen.
Power Crusher - He grabs his opponent into an extremely damaging bear hug, swinging them wildly back and forth before throwing them against the far wall, can catch airborne opponents but does less damage.
Punch and Crunch - He performs a single massive punch to the opponent’s stomach then follows up with a rhino like upward headbutt that sends the opponent flying into the air.
Freed Slave - His ultimate act of power… his ability to rip the deity’s stone from his form to give his mind and body the chance to regain its’ strength. When performed his strength, defense and speed are boosted by 10% each, even if their max has been reached, and his health will slowly increase over a short period of time. However, the player must reinput the command motion for this move before the timer runs out and if they fail to do so, all of his stats will drop to half of their base number and his health will rapidly decrease until he is left with only 1% left.

Basing him around to be a complete monster -if- he can hit you… during the match he’ll be able to up his stats however he will have to rely almost completely on normals as he has only one special move, granted it does three different things. The ultimate move is really strong but I think is easy to counteract if you are fighting him as you could just go into an all out rush down on him so he never gets a chance to reinput the command.

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I didn’t think to hard on this, but I would suggest she do her own unique counter super, otherwise you would have to animate her mimicing every super in the game just in case she got hit with it. That would be a bitch.

Especially if you animated everyone and she never used some because those supers sucked. That’s wasted effort, and you need to eliminate that as much as possible.

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I would highly suggest you figure out and lock down what game mechanics you like and start building your characters more closely to it. You’ll have a better base and reasoning for how you design your moves especially if you want new mechanics that deviate off the beaten path. Moves that have different uses at different places on the screen and different game mechanics will really change how good the character you design will actually be.

Anyways good luck and continue to have fun.

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About your “Counter” character. Give him a few normal attacks that are OK-ish but not great. Have him be able to somehow build meter safely, and then when he gets enough, let him perform a super that is similar to the move “Taunt” in Pokemon. Something that forces the opponent to maybe pull off a random special move for him to counter.

Good luck with making your game. It sounds fun. And don’t be afraid to try out any interesting and different ideas. Just whatever you do, don’t introduce too many random elements. Fighting game players HATE that, lol.

Something you should also take into consideration is frame data. Your counter character will greatly benefit from moves that are advantage on block, since the opponent will try to mash fast moves to escape from her strings. She should have plenty of ways to fluster the opponent and annoy them into attacking. Perhaps a poison barb move that gradually drains health and can only be gotten rid of by attacking and knocking down the one who used it?

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Actually one of the other female characters has that poison attack… which does double damage to women for some reason… =D