When did Tekken start doing 3/5 matches? AFAIK that was always 2/3 matches especially since you get 3/5 rounds in that game.
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LOOOOL. I would hate to know I only had one more match to amount a comeback 7 seconds into the first match.
1 hour and 40 minutes into that video…the first 2 matches of the grand finals between Combo and Marlin Pie are basically the same BS except for it takes slightly longer for the last character to finally lose than in the situation above. Team synergy is too important in this game to be basing 2/3’s as the be all of this game when one bad assist call ruins your first 2 characters in seconds.
If they only played 2/3 of that shit there’s no way anyone playing in the match or watching it would take it seriously. “Yeah basically they got 2 characters twice in the first two matches then the other dude clutched it out”. Which the only way for them to have amounted a comeback in the first two matches is durp around in XF3 which people don’t take seriously either. There’s no elongated strategies for winning with XF3. It either happens or it doesn’t. Luckily that was the grand finals of a tournament instead so they got some more matches to feel each other out.
2/3 with anyone other than scrubs in this game just becomes crazy swings of momentum. As ComboFiend and Marlin branched out into the 3rd, 4th, 5th matches they started to feel out when they should call their assists better in the matchups and it made more sense. I’m sure they wouldn’t like having one more match to decide the winner if the 1st and second matches went the way they did at another tourney.
he had pheonix so its all good. lol. but i would really like matches to be longer. makes it more enjoyable and gives people to time to recollect themselves instead knowing next match is it and XFC guard canceling can really f*** people over. dem XFC mind games.
If it was add a ton of variance to who was placing at events, I’d agree that it should be considered.
But the same players rise to the top of the weekly tournaments each week, and you see a lot of familiar faces in Top 8’s for bigger tournaments.
For instance, based on knowing who showed up to the Toronto tournament, I could have predicted that Top 8 would include Combofiend, MarlinPie, Jago, RDK and Detrimantix.
I think we should wait and see what Ultimate brings.
I would say it’s nice that you can predict a bit of the top 8 but I’m sure the entire top 8 doesn’t consist of people that should have been in top 8 in a game like Vanilla MVC3. Even in Ultimate with the changes the game just doesn’t work in a way where the people within the top 8 should be playing anything but 3/5 matches FOR SURE. They’re still playing the momentum swing game on each other in a 2/3 setting and not getting as well adjusted to attack spacings and assist calls. If they’re scoring momentum set wins on each other in top 8 that’s not good either.
In general though 3/5 gives people more time to use their entire team and not just try to be the guy that gets the momentum swings they need to run through a team twice. If you get beasted on 3 times in a row that definitely means that your gameplan was just clearly weaker than the opponent’s. Though in a 2/3 setting it’s hard for 2 good people to go one match, one match, one match in a 2/3. It’s too easy to just sweep a good player twice if you’re another good player.
Yeah 2/3 in SFIV takes forever with the low damage output and considering some of the zoning/lame out based characters are still rather viable (Sagat, Balrog etc.) that have no problem just grinding out matches with shots and jabs. 2/3 is clearly all that game needs. The mix ups aren’t even strong enough outside of the top few characters for it to matter. Whoever played better can be clearly seen and felt between the players and the people watching since the based damage and inability to do anything really creative offensively forces the issue any way. Clearly a game where 3/5 matches would just be a waste especially since you get rounds any way.
i like 3/5 for mvc3… but umvc3 MAY be different. umvc3 MAY have a higher value on lame/zoning teams. if that occurs i think that 2/3 would be fine.
bottom line, 3/5 for mvc3 and wait for umvc3 to be out 6 months to a year to see if the bs one hit… then one or 2 characters dead is still seriously prevalent.
personally without haggar/tron assists or invincible assists in general i dont know how lame will be good since invincible AA’s were what made mvc2 what it was and what really kept the game from being…mvc3.
I like 2/3 but that’s because I’m a big fan of Japans formats. Single Elimination. Its crazy to see some players still come out on top despite getting one chance to make it happen.
3/5 would be the best but as I am sure some other people have pointed out it would not work for tournaments simply due to the time constraints that come with them. If normal games were 3/5 the tournaments would be much longer and the majority of the grand finals would have to be played very late at night in a hotel room because the venues would close.
If there was a single tournament just for MvC it would work but due to the time constraints on the people running the tournament it would be impossible.
3/5 would take forever, way too long for any tournament with a schedule to consider.
Is anybody still considering turning the damage down? Imo it fixes most of the problems with the game. Damage on lowest only goes down by a quarter(800k dante combos do 600k etc). Ridiculous damage turns into respectable damage. More incentive for resets especially during comeback situations with the clock running down since the combos in this game can be quite long. It’s also good for meter management since you’ll have to spend more than one bar to kill a character off the bat. A lot of inescapable unblockable setups becomes still very good but you’re not going to lose a character for it most likely unless they spend a lot of bar and/or x-facor. Pixie health characters can still die in one combo you just have to make your fingers do a little more work. It bridges the gap a little bit between the high damage and low damage characters. While also widening the gap between day 1 abc combos and optimized combos. While the gap is closer in terms of numbers, the advantages of optimized combos come in the form of number of combos necessary to kill a character. This being an instant buff and more incentive for characters with high health since they don’t die in the same combos as characters with lower health. It also makes X-factor a bigger tactical choice since you have no other way of killing a character without meter, and not by doing your abcs. Put that together with overall X-factor nerf and you’ve got yourself a manageable comeback mechanic.
The biggest problems with this: It’s not the online standard and there is no way to play online with it as far as I can tell.
It doesn’t change the dynamics of the game drastically. If you have enough meter or x-facor, said character and your assist are probably dead. C. Viper still has an infinite. Good characters are still going to be good and bad characters are still going to be bad. You just get to play a little more.
It actually makes sense even when you think about it from a TO’s perspective of assuming every game goes to time. A game that ends to time out in MvC3 takes (by my sampling of a random youtube video) 3:07 and that’s ignoring character selection and the 2 second pre-game shuffle which is going to overall represent about a fixed time. Factoring in people hitting rematch and being hurried maybe, let’s say we’re at 3:30 per game. At 2/3 you’re looking at 10:30, but at 3/5 it’s more like 17:30. By comparison, if you had a fighting game with an honest timer and a round system (SFIV is I believe close to honest if not completely), a game would take 4:57 which is indeed significantly longer than MvC3 but not quite as radical as you might think at first. Let’s say you end up with each game actually taking 5:20 so 2/3 takes 16:00 and 3/5 takes 26:40. That means that a 3/5 MvC3 event would have to be planned to run at most 10% longer than a 2/3 SFIV event which is pretty logistically reasonable. For further comparison, Smash Bros events do exist and run fine with 2/3 on 8 minute timers so clearly these logistics can stretch quite a bit if actually needed, which isn’t true in this case but worth keeping in mind.
As per the virtues of it, I think it’s pretty simple. We should strive to minimize variance in our tournament formats, and that means we want the “better” play to win as often as possible. To put that in terms of probability, we can model any game between players of remotely similar skill as a random event. In a single game, Player A might beat Player B only 55% of the time, but that does mean that Player A is the better player just not much better. In a 2/3 event, Player A has a 57.475% chance to win the match. In a 3/5 event, that becomes a 59.3126875% chance. That doesn’t seem like much in the way of gains at a glance, but when you consider how similarly skilled these players were in the first place that 2% increased liklihood of the “correct” outcome is actually pretty big. There are other arguments too, but mathematically it seems hard to deny that 3/5 is better than 2/3 if there isn’t some practical limitation in the way. Actually looking at numbers, I’m not seeing any practical limitation at all and if anything think we’d want 3/5 just so people who make first round exits get more of their money’s worth.
I think 3/5 should be done for the remainder of Vanilla MvC3’s life and then based on experience from that, decide if we want to continue it for UMvC3.
Hm I see, this would make more sense since 3/5 for Marvel shouldn’t really last that long. I also agree with this ‘‘I would say it’s nice that you can predict a bit of the top 8 but I’m sure the entire top 8 doesn’t consist of people that should have been in top 8 in a game like Vanilla MVC3.’’ but the game is very inconsistent/luck based in itself, I saw matches of people nowhere close to the top spots beating some of the top contestants not far after, but extending the format would help. (Altho Viscant was talking about luck of the draw @ EVO format)
Also at what the other quoter said true I would have liked to see Clockw0rk play some more, but as I already suggested for the top 8/16 it should for sure be 3/5, but idk if every match should be. Its cool though. And yea I didn’t try to sound selfish and noted wants from both sides.
I’ve been saying this for a while. Characters die far too fast in this game for either player to really adjust to the other player’s patterns and how they play the matchups. It ends up that the person with the most mixup strategies and the fastest mixup that the other guy isn’t ready for just wins. In most games if you get caught by any sort of mixup you at least have some time to rethink your own patterns vs your opponent’s and try to adjust. In MvC3 if you get caught by any sort of mixup you probably lost the game.
Basically, 3/5 Marvel would NOT take significantly longer than SF when comparing worst case scenarios. And don’t forget that this is Marvel, a game who’s average match consists of the best rush down characters in the game fighting each other all the damn time (assists may vary). How often have you seen the timer even be an issue?
Starbase had once tried a 3/5 tournament in MvC3. It meant grand finals format would be 4/7. I don’t know what all they got from the experience except that grand finals took way too long. I kinda prayed the bracket wouldn’t get reset, but it did lol.