so daigo, chris hu, damdai, and seiya are bad ? 99% of ryus end their blockstrings with cr.mk xx hado because it keeps them safe. and if the ryus you play are always anti airing you with cr.mk then why dont you space your jump ins to be a semi ambiguous crossup ? i dont mean to come off as a dick, but im going off what the large majority of good ryu players do. if you jump in meaty, theyre going to try and anti air with cr.hp / dp. theres no reason they wouldnt. everything you can do with cr.mk, you can do better with cr.hp for ryu. it does more damage, better priority, and rarely trades (particularly vs Guy). and being completely honest, i have NEVER seen a ryu intentionally bait someone with cr.mk xx hado. you know why ? because its safe vs almost everything. Ive played TONS of ryus (including Valle’s) and not a single one has baited me intentionally.
its pretty damn easy to tell when ryu players are going to throw fireballs…its practically telegraphed. you can EX Bushin for free and Ex run/slide for free as well.
both jump in and TK EX Izunas will beat DP’s easily.
and something else regarding DPs: you can get free bushin flips on EVERY DP they throw out on wakeup if you know how. lp bushin flip if spaced properly, will grab a wakeup DP for free. EX Bushin on their wakeup will either grab them in their 1 standing frame, or grab them out of the dp. other than that, you shouldnt be jumping in on ryus at all unless its a safejump crossover on their wakeup. Ryus are cake, for the most part. I guarantee that if you do a wall jump, then cut it short with command elbow, it WILL bait out SOMETHING, usually a DP / cr.hp. DP you can punish with cl.st.hk~bushin, cr.hp you can punish with run/slide or cr.hk for a free untech knockdown. from there you get to start your mixups, and as blooddrunk said, run/stop is gold vs ryu. you have no idea how many srk’s ive baited out by using run/stop.
like i said, its all about baiting and punishing vs ryu. but also like ive said, everyone is entitled their own opinion. either way, this makes for great matchup discussion.
hey I know you dont mean to be a dick and I appreciate and respect the advice you’re giving me.
But Good Ryu’s will not end a block string with cr.mk hado. They will buffer it with a poke that is very close to range just at the tip.
heres a quick example of Daigo vs Erikson
[media=youtube]kz9OSqLjpNg]YouTube - [SSF4[/media]
Daigo got punished for it the first time. and the next times he does nothing or ex fireball or f.hp to eat the focus.
the other times he buffers it from just out of footsies range and dudley keeps eating it.
and when he is in range he does red fireballs or nothing.
Also Im sure if you get punished once, you wont do it again. if we play at a tourney and its 2 out of 3 plus losers, you won’t have any oppurtunity to punished a poorly spaced fb again.
But I think you are misunderstanding on what I’m trying to say. I mean when I try to bait a dp with jump elbow out of srk range, I always get cr.mk. But when I try to mix it up, I get dped. The guy I was playing was able to punish it on reaction and believe me I wasn’t spamming it.
Also when I try to go for a deep crossup I always get dped not matter how I change the timing. Auto correct and reverse SRK motions always beat my cross up attempts.
Its just tough and frustrating not being able to apply Guy’s mix ups. Also I have been playing that guy in long sessions so he probably knows my style by now. But I know his too and I felt at that time Ryu had the upper hand.
Also Focus dash U2 punishes cr.mkxxfb
and Ryu’s wakeup game is too deadly.
Also why would Chun-Li and Guy be 5-5? I have no idea how to deal with her even agaisnt average players =/
Chun, is a patience game even I have trouble with her because I run into good chuns online and bad ones, Ryu I play one off line a lot, A lot of the times I go for baits i know where I should end in range to beat an SRK but outside of cr hp and cr mk range. most Ryu’s will go for that CR HP, reasons being: better damage, reset, meaty fireball, stun Ryu can stun Guy quite easily I’ve come to realize this. Now runstop may leave Guy at -2 but heres the thing the worst and only thing you can get hit by apparently is Super. The reaction for this is one frame, In other words they pretty much have to be on point, psychic the runs stop, or mash out super. Guy will avoid everything else and the only other thing to worry about is grab. Using cl st mp. Run.stop will leave you at +1 and a lot of times if Ryu doesnt have meter he wont Shoryu unless he tries to surprise/scare you. Your at -2 which means you can block/backdash, then proceed to punish, also if you have forgotten in Ryu decides to FADC: backdash, EX Hoz, if you are stocked with U2 and he dashes forward, U2.
It seems that chun can win the patience game because of her fb and better pokes.
getting around them is the toughest thing for guy.
the only advice I have at the moment is punish whiffed sweeps with slide and punish haszanshu with fadc U2
3frame jab is a nightmare. I think she beats guy at all the aspects except damage output and corner pressure.
I think your being a bit optimistic with the list, I do agree with quite a few, but, these are the ones I don’t fully agree with. Bear in mind I’m not as skilled as you guys.
“Balrog - 5.75 / 4.25 (Balrog’s favor)”
I believe this is more in Balrogs favour. 6/4 atleast.
“Chun Li - 5.0 / 5.0 (Even)”
5/5? I have a lot of trouble with Chun, definately doesn’t feel even.
“E.Honda - 6.0 / 4.0 (E.Honda’s favor)”
According to many this is Guys worse match-up and I am yet to beat a competant Honda player, feels worse than 6/4.
“M. Bison - 5.0 / 5.0 (Even)”
Maybe its just me but this one doesn’t feel even, I have a lot of trouble with the bison match-up.
“T.Hawk - 5.5 / 4.5 (Guy’s favor)”
I’d have this as even. Haven’t played a lot of the match-up but not sure why this is in Guys Favour.
On the whole I don’t think your a million miles away with the list, I just think some numbers are a tad optimistic.
Balrog 6/4 is a definite but I can see the 5.5 I play a competent Rog from time to time and it’s really a patience game against the two. But Balrog does have a bit of an upper hand.
Chun- it’s like Guile, once Guy gets in Chun and starts with pressure she has the be patient, and she gets knockdown she has no options for wake up, The only problem Guy has is getting in just he does for Guile. Which is where Chun can excel all Guy has to do and wait it out and smart footsies and baits.
Honda- I can’t even say for this because I rarely find Honda’s and I rarely meet good ones
Bison- I fight against one… a lot… All I can say is, who ever can keep the pressure better and lock the opponent into the corner pretty much wins. Which both can do… very well. And with the added discovery about EX Psycho Punisher being avoided by EX Bushin Flip and beaten by Mk tatsu takes away a good part of Bison’s game,
Hawk- Well with EX Bushin Flip unthrowable on startup really helps when it comes to avoiding his tick throws and SPD shenanigans. Condor Dive is practically useless now, Guy can punish it with TK Izuna and EX Tatsu, On block Guy can do Run Slide, If Hawk goes for shenanigans to try an SPD from a whiffed Dive, EX bushin flip. His Tomahawk is completely useless as Guy can bait it out with a Safe jump and just like grabbing a DP with EX Izuna you can do that as well with ALL versions of Tomahawk. Condor Spire can be easily beaten with st mk. and cr mp, and if he attempts to do shenanigans similar to Dive EX bushin flip. And footsies and Armour Cancel EX bushin flip are a good tool against him.
regarding honda, if you notice, i do have him as Guy’s worst matchup. i just dont think its over 6/4 in hondas favor. crossups screw his charge time over hardcore. all he can do is buttslam, which is easily focused and punished.
bison is kinda tough if you let him apply pressure. its all a matter of who can apply the pressure first as he has no viable reversal to mash.
t.hawk is actually a fairly easy matchup. all condor dives are unsafe, on block you can punish with EX Hozanto or run/slide all day, if you want to AA it, Izuna beats it out as well. EX Bushin will get you out of all of his SPD’s for free and land you 200 dmg guaranteed. Bushin flip will also catch all of his jump attempts for practically free. all condor spires are punished with a free cr.hk on reaction. think of his as a worse gief (no green hand, no lariat, worse air normals).
chun - shes a waiting game until you can get an untech knockdown. once you do, if you keep the pressure up, shes free. completely free. EX SBK is easily baited and can actually be beaten out by lp bushin and command elbow(if timed right). its just a matter of baiting her to make a wrong move. if she gets you off of her, just go back to the baiting game.
ive done a write up on rog if you wanna check it out, dont feel like retyping everything here lol. Im starting the clinic right now anyways
Maybe this is better asked in the matchup thread, but regarding Rog, you wrote that you counter dash punches by grabbing him:
Do you have any examples of this in a vid, or can you demonstrate by making one? I don’t understand how you can do that without consistently eating dash punches in the face, but maybe it’s just me.
Off the top of my head, I really don’t see Balrog being a harder match up than Zangief. There’s almost really nothing you can do to Zangief once he gets a lead that doesn’t put you at risk of eating a blocked reversal jab SPD. Balrog on the other hand can be safely harassed with command overhead, max range run overhead and even HK slide. And its not as if its easier for Balrog to get a lead then Zangief- random command elbow drops from half screen range away and HK slides make it difficult for Balrog to do anything but move in slowly and play footsie. Oh and you can cross up Balrog once you get a knockdown. I’d go so far as to say that Balrog is 5:5 and Zangief is 5.5: 4.5 (Zangief) or 6:4.
Also I don’t think cross ups ruin Honda at all. Auto-correction for Ex Headbutt and even Ultra is REALLY lenient- they just have to do it as late as possible. I’d like to know what cross up set ups you’re doing that don’t get autocorrected against. Also, butt slam can’t be focused against when it’s done as a reversal. Honda is almost definitely his worst match up and 6/4 sounds about right.
Well, Honda’s EX headbutt has 8 frames startup so it’s at least easy to safejump. I do find it retarded that he can now hit you with his ass for counterhit (200) damage if you misstime it slightly though.
Havent tried this, but maybe if you jump over him early on wakeup(and mess up his horizontal charge), you can bait him into doing butt slam and catch him with bushin flip. If he chooses to do nothing and block instead, you should be relatively safe; it’s not like Honda is particularly tall.
Also, not sure if you get pushed back too far, but his butt slam is -2 or worse on block(unless it hits meaty) so you could technically land U2 on him every time he does it.
gief is definitely not harder than rog…gief is easy as hell to keep out and when he does get in you can easily armor cancel to get out of his SPD’s. and i dont know what you were talking about being able to safely overhead/ run xx overhead rogs. thats just stupidity. rog can, and will, jab the shit out of you before you can even start up your overhead. and headbutt > run xx overhead. period. those two things are just asking to be ultra’d. btw vs gie you can EASILY jump in tick with command elbow > ex bushin immediately and get a free 200 dmg
ok just for sake of discussion im going to throw some stuff out there.
Blanka - I think this matchup is in Guy’s favor. Maybe its because I mained Blanka in Vanilla and know his tricks but once you get the knockdown there isnt much the green guy can do. I havent played any really great blankas that can keep jab electricity pressure going but I would say this is 5.5/4.5 Guy.
Sakura - There is no doubt in my mind that Guy has a good advantage on this matchup but 6.5/3.5 might be a little too high
Rose/Bison - 6/4 Guys disadvantage. I honestly think rose is guys 3rd worst matchup behind balrog and honda.
i put blanka as 5/5 because it all depends on who gets the knockdown first. if blanka does, its hard for Guy to get out of his shenanigans. if guy does, he can cr.mk on blankas wakeup literally the entire match and all he can do to get out is ultra/ex upball.
i really do think sakura is 6.5/3.5 guys favor because if sakura can get her resets going, it could be a nightmare (that goes for any character except vs hawk/gief) but guy has a lot options to keep her out and if she gets knocked down, shes free. all she can do to get out is EX srk, which is easily baitable and highly punishable. guy can stop all her jump ins cold with st.hk (except her j .hk which trades at proper distance).
i put this in roses favor, but not more so than anyone else other than rog or honda. rose can cr.mp xx drill all day and shes safe as hell unless its spaced incorrectly (which never happens) her cr.mp is incredibly fast, safe, and has amazing priority. all of that being said, she can be beaten easier than rog or honda. her entire game revolves around her pokes. once you can get in, you can apply a ton of pressure. the only get off me move she has in ex drill (she will throw these out on wakeup and after a cr.mp xx dril blockstring for the CH). learn to bait her out. go to the rose boards and ask for a rose to run a bunch of matches with you. shes pretty hard at first, its just a huge mindgame with rose because her pokes are so good. bait something out then get a knockdown, proceed to pressure.
cammy has no overhead on wakeup unless she does a high crossover cannon strike. theres no reason to not down back when she putting tkcs pressure on you. just block and learn to tech the throws. guy can apply pressure, but it needs to be in short bursts. just learn to bait her cannon spikes and punish them. the good thing about cammy is that if anything she does is spaced incorrectly, it can be punished really hard.
ryu i firmly believe is 5/5. ken might be a little worse…possibly 5.25/4.75 kens favor due to his mix ups.
balrog isnt incredibly horrible, as long as you know what to do. read the write ups and go to the rog boards seeking a sparring partner
on cammy… not to mention… crouch teching with strong wrecks her tk divekicks when she tries to bait crouch techs that use cr. short. a really common setup that cammy’s use is dp FADC tk divekick to bait the cr. tech short. if you use strong with your cr. tech it’ll hit her out of the divekick as well as tech the throw if she goes for it. cr. strong beats all of her divekicks from any range. you’d be surprised at how much easier cr. strong makes this matchup.
^^ It doesnt completely remove TKcs pressure… Cammy can Jumpback EX-CS which hits the Cr Strong on its recovery and she can ultra after that… LP Tk-izuna beats both these options but if she baits it Guy is screwed ;_;…
I just think the cammy matchup might be at the most 5.5-4.5(cammy favor)…its just that Cammy has so much more reward when she gets knockdown with those ambiguous CS setups…Cammys offense is just so much more scarier than guys…not to mention she has DP->ultra as shitty as it maybe its still there…
yea it doesn’t completely remove it… but cr. tech with strong helps a TON in that matchup because she can’t bait cr. techs the way she normally does. on wake up… of course there’s nothing you can really do but guess if the divekick will crossup or not which sucks(divekicks are really fuckin strong in this game). cammy’s overall offense is just better than guy’s because she has good pokes, a dp, and can generate pressure that’s difficult to punish. to me any one with a dp has a huge advantage as long as they have 2 ex stocks. it’s lets them guess incorrectly and make their incorrect guess safe.