Perfect Frame: Hugo's Impossible Anti-Air?

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
1

I think I may be smoking mad crack, so I need someone canadian to test something for me. Is it possible for Hugo to have perfect anti-air?

The opponent jumps in. As soon as they are within range, you jab at them. They parry, you jab again. They parry again. At this point, due to gravity, they are about to hit the ground.

Now. We all know about tripguard, so since they haven’t done anything, they can still jump straight up. However, there is ONE frame in which they land and jump up, and one may (disturbingly easily) snag this single, Perfect Frame and Gigas Break them to Kingom Come. And there ain’t a damn thing they can do about it.

So, like, yeah, in theory, what the hell else can they do except:

A) Eat a jab

B) Attack early in the jump, and get Sacrifice SPD or Gigas’d ANYWAY

C) Try to attack upon landing, and get Gigas’d

D) NEVER jump again

I did this in Training, with the computer doing nothing but jumping straight up and parrying. You can do it with SPD as well, but the timing is little harder, as you don’t have Super-Freeze.

Someone disprove this, or else I’m petitioning to re-tier Hugo like whut.

N

2

What if they attack and trade hits with the first jab?

3

mmm…i just tested it out on cpu ryu in trainmode. it seems the computer eats the giga every time. i set it on all jump+all parry. so cpu ryu would never stay on the ground…

anyway the result is interesting, if they trade hit with my jab, hugo gets pushed away a bit and they just get pushed away a bit too…and they flip in the air…giga miss. or maybe it’s my timing. but you can certainly try for dash giga. most ppl won’t react fast enough to it. i don’t see anyone jumpin, trade a hit, and then jump straight out. maybe someone who’s extremely seasoned against hugo(read: ate about 200000 gigas in his life already)…

if they eat the jab, i can’t land a giga on them anymore. i don’t know if i’m doing anything wrong…

now, if they attack and beat my jab(stupid urien’s jumping hk for instance), most likely, i’d get comboed…but if they attacke early(yang’s jumpin lk and lp sometimes), i get a sac giga. all good…but in that case, if i know i’d get a sac giga anyway, i’d jump straight up and eat the lk or lp in the air since it’s much easier to do giga from a jumping state. right? but that’s just about knowing your oppoent…

in theory, it’s a perfect AA…but you have to be quick on the rotation and be psychic. just knowing what your oppoent’s attacking or doing in the air and then quickly react to it…that’s hard…everything’s easy on cpu ryu…wait until a human ryu…and his millions times superior brother ken…ok, maybe not millions time, but he has a smirk. ryu doesn’t.

4

Can you be completely sure that they can safely hit you between the jabs though? And if so, will it be low enough to avoid a sac SPD?

After the second jab, they’re so low it’s impossible to attack. And if you duck before you begin, they have nothing to attack. As soon as I’m not broke again (read: stop drinking my money away) I’m going on an all-Hugo diet to field test this bad boy.

N

5

I wasn’t talking about hitting you between the jabs, I was talking about the first jab.

If they trade hits with you, then they fall backwards, and you’re pushed back as well, giving them some distance.

You could then:

a) Try 360+SK

b) Dash + 720

c) S.MP/C.MK

This is assuming they don’t jump when they hit the ground.

Besides, if you nail them once with the jab jab 720, I don’t think they’d be stupid enough to fall for it again, so the tiers wouldn’t change. :wink:

(edited some spelling/grammar mistakes)

6

However, it WOULD give him an almost invincible anti-air. We’re not playing Theory Fighter in a vacuum here, we’re talking about real matches. If you opponent jumps in, there is (if this works as I understand it to) no way to escape taking damage. This would essentially equate to never desiring to jump in at all, ne? Wouldn’t that affect Hugo’s game in a huge way, forcing your opponent to stay grounded, where they can eat an SPD from any number of setups?

Let’s assume that this works exactly as I have stated it. If the opponent jumps in, you may crouch right up until you are within striking distance, and then stand and begin jabbing. Your opponent must either take the jab or eat an SPD/GB. This is a no win situation for the opponent. If they do take the jab, they flip extremely closely to you. Hell, if they’re deep enough, you might have room to Fierce Clap (parried)xx GB them. There is no way to come out of the jumping in scenario without eating damage.

So, then, the opponent has no choice but to stay on the ground and have Hugo continually walk toward them. Having Hugo crowd you is very non-fun. But they can’t jump, because they’ll get hurt. You’re cutting off a huge part of the game.

I’ll hopefully have something more important to say after I get to the arcade. Ja ne yo.

N

7

You are so hot.

8

Thongboy, are you throwing out the jabs when they’re at point blank? Or when they’re within jab distance?

9

plenty of attacks beat out Hugo’s standing jab.

10

When ur thinking about jabbing and ur opp sticks out an early attack, r u sure u can react to that and sac 720 everytime?

It’s like saying u should super everytime u parry an attack, well anybody can do that in practice mode but in a fight? Just too many things r going on during a fight , u cannot always react perfectly to what ur opponent does. This might just be a nice set up for gigas once in a while but i dun see anyone doing this in every fight. So i dun think tiers would change.

my 2 cents

11

Anyone who can do a standing 720 can damn sure pop one on reaction during tripguard. Hell, it’s the same as point-blank anti-air Gigaton pressing. A Hugo player should be able to go from zero to 360 at a moment’s notice. If you screw up a sac, you still get an SPD. Big whoop, you have to settle for huge damage as oppose to absurd damage.

In case no one’s bothering to actually read the whole thing, I’ll highlight the point “CROUCH UNTIL YOU ARE WITHIN RANGE”. By the time the opponent can hit you in the crouching position, they are within jab range. Are you people playing Theory Fighter, or playing real matches? Anyone who attacks before they get into jab range will get parry/Giga’d anyway, unless you’re a scrub and you can’t seem to see the most obvious of attacks coming. The Hugo player shouldn’t be just standing there waiting to land the damn jab-jab. It’s the THREAT of the jab-jab that creates the problem. Yes, things trade with standing jab. Some attacks trade with srks, does that make the srk completely unreliable? Good god, I’m sick of having to hold people’s hands and explain every nuance of every technique to people. Don’t do it EVERY time, mix up your goddamn game. It’s the THREAT that counts, not the actual landing of the technique. Think with your own heads, I’m about done spelling things out.

N - You can’t teach a farmer to be a samurai.

12

I have to agree wif most of the things that u said, except i dun think 1 extra gigas/SPD setup ( that is probably only good for 1 out of a couple matches ) is gonna change tier. Nonetheless i’m gonna try it out next time i go to the arcade. :slight_smile:

13

lol sheesh, someone is PMSing

I suck, and I’m new to the boards. Does that help? :smiley:

Seriously though, I am new to these boards, and haven’t really caught all of the ‘lingo’ yet.

I guess I shouldn’t bother asking for clarification anymore, because I’ll just get flamed. :frowning:

14

i tried that setup today in arcade. no avail. either newbies are super smart and psychic to max, or their jumping around just mess up any patience i had. so i just ended up doing mp, mk backbreaker thing.

15

Coincidentally, I wasn’t speaking to you at the time. Notice the past tense.

As long as the opponent will be landing somewhere within SPD/GB range, you can jab from anywhere you want.

N

16

Hugo’s jabs will get owned by most jumping attacks. His best anti-airs are short air grab, s. strong, c. fierce, and the “wait till they land hoping to parry ur anti-air and 360 or wall grab them”.

17

Here’s my biggest concern: parry, parry, super. And there’s supers that are reliable to use post-jumpin, regardless of the Gigas.

For example, Makoto’s SA 3, Yang’s Raishin Mahhaken and Oro’s EX grab super are completely invulnerable against the Gigas Breaker- and their recovery’s nothing to laugh at, either.

Also, Thongboy, you of all people should know- attacks such as Makoto’s axe kick (difficult to parry because of odd timing) and Urien’s porn-star KIIIIICK! (j.Roundhouse) are pretty safe to jump in with. I’m pretty sure you can’t punish a max-range version of the porn-star kick. As for all the other characters, it should give you an edge when they’re worried about taking ANY damage at all (low health), but… if you’ve got the Gigas, it’s kind of like hunting Ducs with a Cannon, isn’t it?

Let’s go over this character by character:

Akuma: Meh, runaway queen capability. Also difficult to parry his flip-dive because of its variable timing. There’s safer anti-air options with plenty-good payoff against him.

Ken: Viable tactic once he runs out of meter. I’d say that his EX air spinkick gives him an ace, otherwise- not only does it give him crazy hangtime, but it crosses up, juggles, safe if blocked, and in general, has good payoff vs risk. Also, he can always gain ground with EX fireballs.

Ryu: Actually… he might be SOL.

Chun: Her ground game is more punishing than yours. She don’t need to jump.

Makoto: Fairly safe jumping axe kicks, good dash-in capability to punish whiffed medium attacks, and a super that renders her temporarily invulnerable to wakeup games (as well as increasing her poke damage to match your ground game)… you might not be using your setup very often, if ever.

Oro: Nrrrgh. Doublejumps and chicken kicks give him more than enough jump-in options. I hate that fucker.

Yang: EX game. If you can pressure him into the corner before he gets sufficient meter, he’s toast. However, once he gets that EX, your ground-game bets are off.

Yun: His pokes and retaliations are a lot less damaging than Yang’s, but if you’re playing against an impatient Yun, should work. Totally fucks up his rhythm.

Urien: … EX HEADOBAAAATTTO! He’s got a plenty good ground game and tricks up his… thong. Doesn’t need to jump, even when he’s in danger.

Remy: Hugo? Crowd Remy? While this is a match about looking for the opening for the Gigas, like normal, you’re playing right into Remy’s hands- Unlike Yun, this doesn’t interrupt his rhythm at ALL.

Q: 0wnz0r3d. Moving along.

Dudley: If you’re fast enough to properly distance yourself against his jumps, I think he might be SOL.

Necro: You’d probably never, ever need use it.

Twelve: Uhh… same as Necro.

Ibuki: She’s got a LOT of mixup games available in the air, especially once she possesses EX meter for daggers. Also, her jump-in Jab-Fierce comes out hella fast. Might be able to slip in between his jabs.

Alex: Here, I think it’d be useful.

I think that covers everyone.