that video is old and he got lucky.
I think with P groove, you have to incorperate a “blocking first” mentality. React to whatever you feel you can interrupt and our have priority over, but never parry. When you have meter and can make them pay BY parrying is when you parry. A lot of people have set patterns and its important you recognize them. Like for example, when Ken does f+rh and then follows with RC funky kick in prediction of a poke being thrown out.
I quit fighting game for a couple months but started to play again and just started to stick with P-Groove. It gives me the ability to get out of and punish so many brain-dead stupid situations A and K Groove let people get away with.
You don’t see more P-Groove because it doesn’t dish out enough damage compared to C,A and K. That’s really the only reason imo.
P Groove is meant for players with good foresight and reaction (which is heavily aided by foresight). This sounds obvious as hell but so many people try to implement the same mentality as Third Strike parrying into this game - where that’s much less the case.
Safe parries /option parrying exists but are much less important and should not be relied upon.
I play a really aggressive P-Groove - 50% of it is to force situations which create parry opportunities and react accordingly (not parrying and doing something else should always be an option). Most P-Groovers are usually less creative and turtle/build meter and react to the opposition’s approach. In near-sight, turtling is better because it’s fits the grooves attributes more naturally - but A and C-Groove will just out wait you and it can be ugly.
Personally, P-Groove destroys RC abuse. Roll Cancel will always be amazing in guaranteed situations i.e. on reaction to low jump, on reaction to a slow poke, on reaction to another RC and/or special move. But in every other case? It’s a risk against P. I can parry nearly every RC on reaction with high consistency. My friend, Ran-A-Ku, even more so. I wouldn’t even bother using RC’s against Ran-A-Ku unless it was one of a select few (i.e. Ken’s funky kick) - especially if he was sitting on super.
The best scenerio’s for punishing bullshit tactics are these:
Blanka RC electricity: Often free. You need a character with a dragon punch though. Parry->2-in-1 dragon is a joke. If it’s the generic situation(you’re getting up and then dash on top of you) it’s easier than wake up RC, wake up super, wake up JDxn.
This completely changes things and good players will start to implement the different wiff attacks into RC electricity. You can just learn the timing of them and still Parry->Dragon. The important thing is to wait,see and feel it out - don’t decide to parry on wake-up until the last moment. You have to always be ready to throw the late one anyway.
Iori/Kyo RC Rekka - very easy. They cannot abuse this really. Iori gives P-Groove fits! But at least if they attempt the often free Rekka (especially after shortx3->jab rekka), you can punish them for with a big combo.
Honda headbutt/handslap - the headbutt is just too easy. The handslap isn’t even hard to parry entirely but you can just do one parry into dragon for the easiest solution.
Sagat empty jump/low jump into Tiger raid - I actually know people who do this still and lot’s will out of desperation. One low parry into free combo. Really really easy to punish and see the whole situation coming. If you’re able to block this ‘tactic’, and I would hopeyou can, you can parry it nearly just as easily.
Remember, nothing is black and white. Your opponent can be aware and mix you up if you wait for RC’s. Parrying allows you to punish RC’s for free if they are in the abusable/mindless state. Once your opponent recognizes this; they will use them less frequently/less predictably so adjust your game accordingly (don’t be static). Also, parrying RC’s doesn’t translate into victory - it just changes the game. You’ll still have to be successful in many other areas to win - but at least you’ll make the match smarter.
CvS2 gives you a lot of extra parry frames if you go back into neutral*** always remember this. Not only does the lack of significance of option parrying promote you to do this - going back to neutral set’s up multi parries much better; especially against parried attacks cancelled into super (freeze screen means you’ll likely need to be in neutral to have a chance to parry the first hit of the super). Going into neutral also makes you wait those extra 5 frames so you have the ability to make more last second decisions on the most optimal punish/combo and it’s easier since you’re parry reaction is something like low-forward->super instead of cancelling into super as your reaction (since the low forward would have already been decided in option parry).
When you become really strong at parrying you’ll find people will start to mix you up high-low big time. You then have to learn when to block/not parry, when to take the risk and accept gracefully that you’re going to hit because you guessed wrong/were outsmarted.
Jay, i think the key word is rc “abuse”. But in reality, every groove has counters vs that. throwing is the universal counter to such abuse imo as effectively as parrying will do. Sure it’ won’t land you more damage than a parry -> punish, but it’s still a good deterrent for people to stop abusing RC.
you mentioned that p groove is for people with good foresight and reaction. I think it’s more to do with foresight than reaction, as you alluded to. I think the problem with that is that when you play with smart players, they’ll know this is the case, and start trying to bait out parries when they know you’re looking for it via forced situations. I know my game completely changes whenever I play vs P groove players.
I think when you’re playing P groove, you’ve forced yourself into playing a guessing game where you’re more liking to lose than win. Smart players will be able to repeatedly generate situations where foresight doesn’t help and you’re forced to commit to parry or not.
My thought on P groove is that it’s only good if the other player is unable to change up his game to remove your foresight.
The key word is abuse because it protects against people thinking absolutely. Regardless, eliminating that abuse (and despite our focus on this - it is not the only situation in which P counters RC) is game changing. Take a look at a scenerio where the P groove player allows the abuse only until the right moment. There are many scenerios but the fact is that Parry is the best counter to RC.
The only thing comparable is RC counter. That is not only harder to execute on reaction but doesn’t provide even remotely close to the same damage. Jump straight up, being a great counter, is way too limited.
The only reason P-Groove doesn’t overcome A-Groove and to a lesser extent, C-groove is because those grooves are better than P-Groove regardless of Roll Cancel. That means, Roll cancel is primarily a distraction in those matchup’s. I would never use roll cancel in the same manner against P than I would rest - that says everything in relation to the Parry vs. RC. The Roll Cancel abuse (situations like Blanka elec, Honda, Rekkas, etc.) are extremely effective stragtegies that are pretty much negated by P-Groove.
Parrying is too good in SF systems; it’s the reason they limited the groove so much. Damage is the primary reason P-Groove doesn’t work imo. If I have bar - I’m almost guaranteed to land a super in P-Groove. If that were the case for C, A and K - it’s game over.
The lack of meter and the resulting lack of damage capability is the hole not the guessing game. If I had more damage threat I wouldn’t even have to put myself into guessing games that often. My foresight is often my opponent conisdering my foresight - you can’t be static in P.
They should revamp it entirely and make it such that if you tap forward or down you hit a punch to counter punches or kick to counter kicks.
Bleh.
You are right though if they ported over the 3S’s system P-Groove’d probably see more play.
Kinda scary thought.
I do myself like P-Groove just because of what it gives you, dash and short jump.
just ask albert how to play p-groove
there. done.
intelligent p-groove players are dangerous, and scrubby ones are nearly as dangerous. also, if they are good at baiting parries, then fighting them can be disheartening.
however, that having been said P-groove is an inferior groove unless you are good at reading opponents and predicting their movements.
Or if you’re really lucky at guessing? (_o)/
local 3s machine here is dead, so I picked up CvS just a month ago. I’m still the only p groove player at the peachtree corners place, but it’s really fun getting a good match in.
I really wish capcom made it comparable, since it sucks knowing that P groove really blows in the long run to all the other grooves, but it’s still fun.
i think P is a pretty good groove…i’d play it if they had run instead of dash…i think the biggest thing a p groove player needs is a bnb that does about 3k worth of damage…if for ever parry youre getting a return of 2500-3000k points you can always do damage …the reason i think ppl don’t like p groove is its so damn hard to master the idea of knowing how/when to parry…k has that same thing its just not as extreme as in p groove…i’m glad this p-groove system is different from 3rd strike i dont’ think it should have special cancels because that opens up waaay too much shit for p to so dominant…i do think they should get a damage boost for full bar…albeit a small one maybe 5-10%…but yeah k and p will always get scrubbed out by shosho…but that bitch has to get meter first…and then its not guaranteed youre going to land it all…p and k groovers adjust to her bullshit…i know i do
Who agrees with me that they shouldve gavee p groove charge partitioning like in 3s? this would balance p groove perfectly
Does it really matter?
i dont undererstand, elaborate
What’s done is done.
no.
close thread.
They should have given red parries and “chewing gum character” feeling you have when you play 3S. Maybe they shouldn’t have put P groove at all 
Many 3s people i know just hate cvs2 because they pick PGroove (think it will be piece of cake then) and “It’s not like 3s”, “you cannot red parry” "what? I should have broken your wake up super"and shit…
Then they state the games sucks… Coz they lost trying to apply their 3s gameplay…
So without this fucking P groove, maybe more people would take time to understand the game and not want it to be like another.
Yeah, heaven forbid they get red parry.
That alone would’ve made it broken.
Do you know what charge partitioning is? It’s in every SF game, including CvS2. Look at some of Maj’s Guile combos.
oh you think i dont know that? you think that i think that this could turn out ot be a great idea and cvs2 makers does an other cvs2 version called capcom vs snk 2 PGA? ( p groove upgraded ) huh?
im just saying, WHAT IF
its been 7 years, they could of made a new one already if they plan to, drop it.