"Our spirits are better now." General Cammy Discussion

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
141

Also, I think, because Reversals are auto Armor Breakers. They did it to prevent Meaty Focus Attacks from being too powerful, IMO.

No, not this. Disagree 100%. It’s completely a math thing.

ST is an entirely different beast than SFIV, so the comparison is not valid at all. Most of the best Meaty Attacks in ST lead to 40% damage and a high chance of dizzy. Think Fei Long, Cammy, and Bison, for example. In other words, for a one-frame Reversal chance, more than likely you will die a horrible death for trying a Wake-up, making Wake-ups REALLY scary and discouraging to try. If you do pull the Reversal off, you deal a Jab DP’s worth of damage. Reversals are maybe 50% reliable at high level play. That means half the time you get a Jab DP’s worth of damage, the other half of the time you will more than likely lose the round and your opponent doesn’t even need meter.

Of course, you could do Reversal Supers in ST as well, and deal a ton of damage on the opponent. But the thing about ST is that it didn’t really matter because you can do as much damage as a super with a three-hit Combo. So even if you hit the opponent with a Super, if they lived, they aren’t that far behind. One Combo, and they caught up. Plus, having a Super in ST wasn’t guaranteed. Most of ST is played without Supers being available.

In SFIV, the biggest problem is that people don’t miss their wake-ups. It is so amazingly easy to scrub out Reversals in this game. You can literally mash :df: and hit Punch as fast as possible, and you WILL Reversal, I think 95% of the time with a DP attack. Don’t believe me? Try it. It’s amazingly scrubby. So because Reversals are almost guaranteed, compared to ST where they happen only maybe 50% of the time consistently, it is NOT worth going for Meaties.

Put on top of that the complete lack of fear the opponent has for Meaties. If I fail a Meaty in ST, I eat Low Strong, Low Forward, Roundhouse Drill which does 40% life and a potential dizzy, which means I die. In SFIV, if I eat Cammy’s Crouch Fierce, Low Forward, Cannon Drill, I lose ma-a-a-a-a-aybe 20% of life. If I land my Wake-up, I do about 7% damage. And since I WILL land my Reversal over 67% of the time, the odds are in my favor. Most likely, I will deal more damage via Wake-ups than my opponent will with Meaties. Not a big deal.

And, if I wake up with my Ultra, I’ll probably do 2 to 3 times the damage I took from that Meaty. Unlike ST, you can’t make up for that damage with one Combo like you can in ST. So getting hit by a Wake-Up Ultra is not good. Especially because Ultras are 100% guaranteed to be in every Round. The opponent WILL have an Ultra or two every Round, there is no way that it cannot happen. That means for the latter half of their lifebar, they can drain 35% of your life easily with a scrubtastically easy Reversal.

Of course, then you say you can bait the wake-up and Ultra them on their recovery. Yes, you are 100% correct. And that, it turns out, to be the OPTIMAL strategy. But notice what that tactic really is: not doing a Meaty! You are actually better off, 90-95% of the time, faking meaties and not actually doing them. And that’s what I mean by they are essentially useless in this game. So baiting them is where the odds are in your FAVOR of dealing damage. So actually going for meaties has really bad odds in your favor.

Comparing Meaty / Wake-up games between SFIV and ST is just not valid. You cannot kill someone out right for failing their Meaties like you can in ST. The balance isn’t there. Meaties are what you try maybe one out of 10 times in SFIV. Whereas in ST, it was almost worth it to go for Meaties 95% of the time. When I played Cammy or Fei Long or Bison in ST, I never NOT went for the Meaty. I pretty much went for it 100% of the time. The pay off for landing it was too great to not try. If I landed it, I usually got a dizzy and won the Round. The opponent could Reversal me 5 times in a row with a Jab DP from Ken, and yet if I landed it the 6th time, I won. It’s just not the same.

  • James
142

Tis a tough road for Cammy players. However, since I chose Cammy (along with Chun,Fei, and Sakura to play) No matter how bad I get beat by my opponents I refuse to go out of my circle (although I still play Guile occasionally ^_^)

To be honest, I don’t think she’s that bad, just needs to be relearned. Everyone was complaining about how bad her hooligan was but I think its perfect for how SF4 plays. Not only that, even though it’s tricky pulling her Ultra off in BIG combos (FA>TKCS>S.FP>CSP>FADC back>Ultra) gives a real sense of accomplishment. As opposed to the newbish shoryuken to Ultra (that Ryu can STILL do after trading hits! WTF)

So I think those of us that will stick with her will be rewarded in the long run.

Now if only I could beat a certain Balrog player on my Friend list with her.

143

what is the reward

144

Very hot intro screen every battle~

145

I don’t think so at all. If you’re allowing your opponent the pleasure of standing there for 30+ seconds, the waste in time is equally your fault.

Sure the meaty, cross over, and a pile of other mechanics aren’t the same as ST, or ST2T, or HD Remix, but that’s the point.

I’m not shelling 60 bucks for a HD Remix with next gen console graphics. I expect new mechanics, new system implementations and character overhauls.

These opinions hating on SFIV stem from nut-huggers of older games being unable to let go of an older playing system.

Simply, if its a new game, and I’m paying for it, it better be NEW AND different. Having to adjust to new mechanics is just that, and it really does become more fun when you think about it.

146

Not true.

I play Dhalsim and if I am playing a skilled Ryu and he has a life lead, he doesn’t have to do anything except wait and counter and there’s not much I can do to force his hand. This has happened several times and it’s terribly frustrating:

Ryu leads 60%-35%:

Can I jump? No, Ryu can counter that a million ways.

Can I fireball? Sure, I guess but he has MUCH better fireballs and his reach full screen. He also recovers quickly so a teleport is not advisable.

Teleport? Not if he is ready for them. Even if I have a fireball out, all he has to do is jump back and my fireball won’t reach him AND he can hit me out of my air teleport.

Poke? Hardly. Ryu can DP me from across the screen and none of my ranged pokes do chip damage.

All he has to do is stand back and wait. Sure I can try to mix things up with slides and empty jumps, but the point is he can just sit there since he has a lead. I have faced several Ryus who have simply waited for the match to end. This might not be the norm, but some people do it. They do it because it works. They don’t care that it’s boring as hell.

One thing that style is NOT is Street Fighter.

Back to Cammy. I know she does have tools to force this particular situation which is why I am going to give her a try.

J

147

Top this off with the fact that most typically used meaty attacks have an exceedingly low number of active frames (ever get thrown out of a meaty attack on wake-up? This is why) and safe reversals that lead to ultras. I agree 100%, the risk versus reward for meaty attacks isn’t comparable to ST.

148

Getting reversaled ultra out of meaty EX TK Cannon Strike totally makes you go:

FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Break stick mad.

Yeah, meaties, don’t do them.

149

God, yeah. The higher I get in ranked the more I’m running into this and it’s breaking me. It’s bad enough that other people are playing like this but it’s rubbing off on me. I’m still playing like a spazz most of the time but I’m also playing boring far more often than I’d like, and it’s mostly because I really don’t know what else to do.

I am totally lost when it comes to facing turtles as Cammy, which seems to be a common problem, but now that I’m over 4000BP (and yeah I know BP’s meaningless) I run into the same dudes again and again. And it breaks my heart when I see they’ve figured out that holding db > Cammy. I feel like just packing it in then. No clue what to do other than play really, really boring. Sitting across from them. Waiting for them to move. And boy, a lot of them don’t budge an inch. Screw you, Boxer.

I know this is now a happy thread, and I’m not saying anything new, but I’m losing the buns out love and just needed to vent. :frowning: It’s happened a few times before - I keep flipping between “Hey she’s not that bad” and “Oh God Cammy is the crummiest character in this stupid game”. And I’m sure in a few days I’ll go back to loving her. But right now I’m definitely stuck in a rut. I know I’m a total flowchart Cammy and probably shouldn’t be blaming her but I’m pretty sure if I’d picked Ryu as my main I wouldn’t be having these issues…I’m not sure I could bring myself to switch, though. The world doesn’t need anymore shotos. It needs more butts.

150

ya i can get down with what you say. i mean, look at some japanese ryu’s and dhalsims. the reason why i say japanese (good players) is because they do more of the anticipating, baiting, reversal, and mind game shit. compard to your good USA player (i dunno bout Canada or Euro players) doing some flashy, aggressive stuffs.

ryu can rush down or poke at you and do either 1, 2, or 3 of what buk pointed out and still come out on top most of the time. his walk up game is just as scary as sagat and geif, and his footsies are king if you just sit back and wait for a second or two

dhalsim can safely do only 3, but come out on top a lot compared to his 1 or 2 options. just blocking helps dhalsim out so damn much becuase of the reversal aspect in this game. his footsies are good, but not good enough to rely on what cammy can do.

for cammy’s sake, she relys on 2 and 3 because of her CS priority and mixups aferwards. but so many people (i dunno why) try to abuse 1 because they think that they can out power someone. I mean, she could, but if you were to put this at high level play, I would say the best cammys would be the ones that base their game plan on 2 and 3, then use 1 for opponents that cammy has at least a 70% chance of overcomming on her offence.

i feel for what buk says, not tryin to band wagon, but comming from CVS(1 and 2) and 3s, I could say those are soem of the things that I had to adjust to.

151

Yeah, I just wait to bait reversals, because 99% Of the time, the opponent will attempt to reverse so I keep punishing him until he’s afraid to punish, and then, that’s when I attempt meaties and what not. Unfortunately for turtlers, all I can do is out poke them to bait or tick throw, FA, or what not, especially against Boxers, and Dictators, seems they can outzone poor Cammy, especially Boxer, his crouching attacks consistently, beat mine, plus once he gets meter, it gets extremely difficult due to damn Hyper Armor.

152

haha, world doesn’t need more shotos… needs more butts…

^win from BUNNZ

Seriously…
Boxer is hard to beat with Cammy. It said in the vs FAQ that it’s best to just try to beat him through wakeup games and knockdowns… problem is… I can’t knock him down if he blocks and punishes my attempts… and even when I do get him knocked down, if I try grabbing, he’ll either tech it or I mess up the timing and he jabs me in the leg. When I try to do cannon strike… he either blocks it or does EX PUNCH !!! and I get smacked in the face.

My only options against balrog who knows how to zone… is to just get headbutt… or attempt grab fail :stuck_out_tongue:

I have no idea how to get in since Strike can only do so much.
Against Guile players though… I generally wait for the c.hk … and punish the second spin with an ultra or FA lv. 1 with a backdash afterwards.

Bison is also a problem, when it comes to higher gameplay level. If they gave cammy’s strike a overhead property… oh man would that make her so much stronger XD LOTS STRONGER or more options at least

153

lets take that same logic from the other perspective. i’m waking up, no bars. other guy is hovering over me

if i wake up dp, i can possibly do 15 percent damage, plus get out of pressure (which has its own invisible benefits)

if the other dude blocks, i stand to get hit by a full combo into ultra. even if i’m fighting a non combo-into-ultra character, i’ll still get hit with a full ultra (unless its vega lol)

mathematically, for the defender getting up its best to not go for the dp until he gets 2 bars. what do you do if you know the other guy is not going to reversal? you attack.

fighting games at high levels are about reading the opponent and making the necessary adjustments. they’re certainly not about settling into habits and doing patterns. unless a tactic is completely broken, if you know exactly what your opponent is going to do there is no reason you should ever lose

reversals have been easy in every game after st. they’re certainly not as easy as they are in sf4, but you can realistically expect anybody you play to be able to do them at 100%

so in a game where people can actually do what they want to do, how do you attack?

you mix it up.

you stay unpredictable. you make yourself hard for the opponent to read. he thinks that a wakeup dp will be futile or a waste of meter, so you throw him. he thinks hes going to get thrown, so you hit him with a verifiable low short combo to catch him mashing. hes panicking that youre getting all this offensive damage on him, so you walk up and block his dp

i don’t get it. as much as people toss around the term “mind games” on this forum, nobody wants to actually use them?

in short, yes. people should drop the habit of doing meaties. no, people should not stop doing meaties

sorry if im coming off as sounding condescending, i honestly dont mean to. i have to admit im a little surprised at the outrage coming from easy reversals, though

154

nice ryu avatar

155

Oh man, this girl is starting to click with me now… so much fun to play her. She really is a killer bee with how hard she hits and how fast she moves :smiley:

156

My first post here, so hi and do be gentle…

I’m loving Cammy, she’s so much fun to use. She does have her weaknesses, but I think she can be so fluent at times. Her backdash makes her VERY good whan it comes to mind games and psyching people out too IMO.

And thanks to the people on here who have helped me improve with everything, I’ve been watching Allen and iParry’s vids…both amazing players :slight_smile:

157

The lack of active hit frames and frame advantage on blocked attacks results in nothing more than accidental mashed out throws, and scored reversals in situations where they aren’t even deserved. In what way is it good that commonly used attacks strings and combos can be reversed in-between chained hits on block (Viper’s crouching LK–>close standing LK, or crouching MP–>MP Thunder Knuckle)? Those aren’t even situations that can generally be compensated for (crouching LK has -3 on block, so it can be dragon punched whether you chain into close standing LK or not). This wouldn’t be an issue if it was a rarity, but most characters have awkward gaps like this in some of their more important attack options, and all it seems to be doing is occasionally making attacking riskier in an already defensive game.

Easy reversals only make issues like this even more erratic, and further supplement a player’s ability to panic reverse their way out of tough situations. Most mediocre players have never seen a Viper player do an instant cross-up MK Burning Kick on wake up. Most would never know it was coming, and it’s almost impossible to react to. Why is it then, that reversals often automatically turn the correct direction and hit Viper as she moves to the other side? In what way did they deserve to score that reversal when they had no idea what was happening? This is much less about knowing what the enemy is going to do, and much more about escaping possibly problematic situations via panicking. They don’t even have to input the correct command anymore.

158

Yup.

Much to beef of no beef.

159

I just all out suck at street fighter period, and I try maining at Cammy so I’m just terrible but she is a lot more fun to play than other characters. I’ve got one question against fireball characters can your ultra go under them? I was playing an akuma today doing ex air hadoukens and tried but of course fucked up. sorry for the stupidquestion

160

I am in the same boat - really bad at SF4 but enjoy playing Cammy anyway (working on getting better!).

I have found that the first few frames of the Ultra go under fireballs, but I find it hard to rely on. Perhaps someone with more experience can offer a better explanation?