I know Ranbats have been on hiatus for a little while but I am glad to say I am bringing them back. There will be a completely new format however. The previous brackets system ended up with a lot of lop-sided matches and players getting very unequal amounts of play time. Also the brackets would drag on forever and people slowly lost interest by the time finals came around.
I am going to move toward a league style play where we are divided into three categories: Gold, Silver and Bronze. Each week you will play someone in a FT5 from your own division. Time permitting we might move to each person playing two matches a week. This will allow players to compete with players on their level where they are likely to learn the most.
Every week we will keep track of the matches and run the league for a month. At the end of the month players who performed well (or poorly) will have the chance to move up to the next league (or get bumped down). The top players from each division will play the weakest players from the division above with the opportunity to switch places. I figure Divisions will have 5-6 players per Division and I will just use our existing Ranbat results to determine what league each player falls into.
The rules for this are still being made but I should have something by Thursday. The hard part will be figuring how attendance factors into it. December will be kind of a trial month since everything will go to hell with the holidays but it will be good practice.
Ranbats all have to lead somewhere right? So I am also pleased to announce that I will be starting to organize a tournament for the month of February at Algonquin. Seeding will be determined by these ranbat results. I’ll bring my stream setup and we can get some commentators on the go. So I will be looking for volunteers to help run brackets/streams/commentate. This tournament won’t be limited to SFIV. All games that are played locally will get a chance. Marvel, Guilty Gear, BBCP.
“This will allow players to compete with players on their level where they are likely to learn the most”
Nobody is going to learn from playing people who are bad.
I don’t think this format can work in Ottawa, not enough players, and certainly not enough good players. Everyone belongs in Shit League except for a few I can think of.
The unequal amounts of play time and lop sided matches are part of competition. If you want to play more get hungry and step up, otherwise you don’t DESERVE to play more. At least in a competitive tournament setting.
It’s true that tournament format ranbats offer better preparation for tournaments but a league format does have it’s own benefits that are necessary to improving a community’s overall level.
Said benefits include broadening match-up knowledge, figuring out characters, play styles, and players you have trouble with, and improving adaptability/providing space for experimentation due to longer sets.
Having a league format that includes tournaments offers the best of both worlds by allowing people to play each other consistently but still have an opportunity where they can play each other randomized and with stakes.
I say go for it. Of course, I’d say go for it. Doesn’t hurt to try.
However, Dev is right about the numbers. We’ve only got about 12 - 16 consistent faces, with about another dozen or so in the rafters.
Not much we can do about people being busy.
Everything you said is true but you can do and learn all that by playing better players. I’m sorry but scrubs will not improve playing other scrubs, they’re just going to learn bad habits. Learning from your matches usually has to do with your mindset while playing, not with who you’re playing against. Scrubs (otherwise referred to as “bronze players”) usually lack the mindset that results in actual improvement in their play, they can learn that playing better players. The league idea is fine but we should all be in the same league and randomize some sets each week or something.
plus I know Hash’s feelings would be hurt when he gets placed in bronze
This is coming about after you noticed the Guilty Gear round robin league that we started last week at Gonq? Heh, they do say emulation is the highest form of flattery.
The reason we felt a GG league was an option is precisely because we had enough consistent faces who made it out more often than not. Still, we’re not limiting it to a set schedule, but rather playing out whatever we can when we can, so that it’s less of a scheduled commitment thing and more of a to-do list that we’re checking off in whatever order we can. We’ve even got a second weekly meetup place to keep anyone from feeling locked into Gonq.
If I was going to run an AE league here, I’d think it’d have to be just as flexible. AE attendance is already pretty random these days, so you’re going to want to be careful not to rely on a tiered format, where a third-party schedules the matches to meet an end-of-the-month deadline. Better to leave the deadline open-ended and lump everyone in one league, or else things stop being legit/motivating when people start winning by default over attendance.
…Or just stick to self-contained, one-night tournaments, so that I can join only on the nights where I’m riding an SFIV high from reading about the latest Vega buffs. (Aka. See you in Ultra, bitches!)
It’s nobody’s responsibility to make sure people feel welcome in the community, we’re here to play games and talk some shit. Last thing we need is more scrubs like you coming on here posting random garbage all the time and never showing up to gathers. Dev’s right it isn’t about everyone getting equal play time. I’ve never understood the scrub mentality about losing 0-2 and complaining about play time, you have more to learn from 2 losses than I do from beating everyone in a ranbat. Start doing so or suffer at the bottom of the totem pole. If you want to be coddled please consider joining a less competitive local FG community like BB or SSB
Sure, nobody’s forcing you to make people welcome in the community, but you can’t bitch and whine like some hypocritical douchebag about there not being enough competitive people in it if you’re not willing to be welcoming and helpful in order to help people improve. Someone playing their first fighter ever who doesn’t know anything about it should be just as welcome as someone who’s been at it for years and is really good as long as they’re willing to listen and learn. Who “deserves playtime” is complete elitist bullshit, and attacking me for never showing up when the only reason I don’t show up is because I can’t afford gas (and because recently I had to replace my back windshield because some jackass bashed it in in my driveway) to get there is off topic and besides the point.
This isn’t a “the BB and Brawl scenes aren’t competitive so it works there” thing at all. It just seems to be an AE thing, because every single person from the city I’ve encountered in the Tekken scene when I first picked up the game has been insanely welcoming and helpful, such as guys like AAK. You want more competitive people? Then tell the newbies or the, “scrubs” as you so eloquently put it the things they could work on in matches, let them know why move A beats move B, and help give them the opportunity to see what sort of things to look for. If you’re content playing the “big fish in a little pond”, then just say so, but if you want the community to get better, then you can’t be tech-hoarding and just saying “if you’re bad, then just suck it up and get better”.
It’s not even like this is something that happens with AE, Marvel or whatever scenes either, because Toronto and Montreal are far different from how you think it should go based off of experiences over there. I would rather have a scene of 30 people with 4 people at the top that are helping everyone and slowly bridging the gap so that everybody learns and can be competitive with each other, than a scene of 10 super competitive people that shun outsiders and newcomers trying to get in because they don’t “deserve it yet” or haven’t “earned it”. It’s supposed to be about people getting together and enjoying playing games, not some fucking high school or college clique shit.
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Maybe with less infighting next time.
I agree they might learn bad habits if they are teaching each other but that won’t be the point of this. I remember you sitting down the Jamel for a while and teaching him things and that is great. That is where he is going to learn the most. But he then needs to test what he learned in matches versus people of his similar skill level. Being put in a ranbat and fighting you and Adam and losing quickly isn’t proving anything.
12-16 people is plenty to do a league format with at least two or three divisions. We currently have 18 people who have participated in ranbats. You only want a max of like 6-8 people per division.
I didn’t notice but that is awesome. I also agree scheduling is the hardest part. I want to look at a system where attendance doesn’t matter much. I just want to draw names from those people who are there at the time. Not sure how to work it yet but I have a few ideas.
As for all this talk about being welcoming or not and providing teaching through competition. It’s up to each person I guess. Beating up on the little guy isn’t going to make him want to come back and grow the community. However we also can’t hold peoples hands. If people can’t do fireballs consistently then all I can say is “practice doing them til you can.” People can only help so much.
True. You can definitely learn a lot more from losing against stronger players than weaker ones, but it’s only beneficial if you can recognize what you need to learn and ask questions.
However, you guys are right, that’s up to the individual to decide if they want to improve or not. Ranbats is, and should remain, community training sessions for competitive tournaments.
My opinion is that longer sets should still be included somewhere, since they provide players a means to play others consistently and serve as a prompt for questions after the matches.
That’s about as much hand-holding a community needs to provide to be welcoming. Being open-minded to new ideas, be willing to answer any questions, and provide instruction if anyone asks for it.
What about some sort of Player Points system like they use in online play? Like, everyone starts with a set rating and put points on the line when they go up against each other in official FT5’s or whatever? It would be totally independent of scheduling or attendance, but would still be a good indicator of where people are at. And then, while PP ends up deciding ranking, you can still track stats like Plus/Minus and Games Played, so that people can see the story behind the score.
hey yall aholes leave livewire alone plz, he is just some lonely kid that no one likes irl looking for some friendly people to communicate with on srk.
I guess my point is that you really don’t know what the community is like cause you’re never there to be a part of it, you’re going off of forum posts. My picture is of a 30 some odd year old chinese man holding evo points, how reliable a picture do you think you’re going to get? 'round here we help those who genuinely want to improve, pretty much nobody wants to spend time training a scrub (scrub=/=bad at the game). Did I get as good as I am being babied? Nope did it on my own. Same with hash, he improved immensely, me calling him a scrub made him want to get better and beat me. What about VERBAL? he is gdlk and was since before he started coming out to gathers. People need to take responsibility for their own learning. This community is in fact very welcoming I’d say, so long as you are active and have a desire to learn and improve. Nobody insults noobs when they come in off the street, but nobody wants to sit there and offer them loads of advice if they’re just playing casually either. JUST DONT GIVE A FUCK cause i’m here to play games and have fun doing so however I please, and if I’m talking shit to you it’s cause I know you can take it and turn it into better play.
damn james u rarely talk shit to me, i guess that means u don’t see potential in me becoming better. oh well it was a good run. real talk though i agree with what the king is saying, i am not give a crap for people who spend most of their time at home and not give an effort to try and come out to events like the gonq and feg central( sorry dev i am not mahvel player i wish i was). so unless you show don’t expect people to spoon feed you years and years of experience while you sit your ass on the couch. we more than happy to help and accommodate if we see people putting in effort into becoming better. i try to show up every week and i always get great advice from guys like tek, adam, james, kev, andy, and yang. so the more i play them and ask them the more i see improvement from my game. these guys i talked about and others more r regulars so offence don’t talk about our scene like that if your not being a part of it.
Ranbats in Ottawa have a history of not doing very well. They always start with great enthusiasm and attendance and end up diminishing within a couple of weeks. A points system as Scott suggested would be a good alternative, otherwise just continue running small tournaments each week; it’s too difficult to organize around attendance. Don’t worry about playtime, that’s what free stations and casuals are for. Kinda your own fault if you sit around and not let anyone know you want to play next when the same 2 people have been playing for an hour.
As for the whole debate on how the community should be, there’s some truth to everyone’s points. It’s not anyone’s responsibility to help improve any one person’s game. If you want to get better then show up, have some balls to call next, play a shitload of games and ask questions if you need help. You will find that 99% of the people there will be friendly and will answer your question(s), offer you advice, and/or help. The whole playtime issue is that no one is going to be paying attention to the people sitting behind them to see if they want to play or not. If you want to play then say something, otherwise you’re just considered to be spectating and it’s no one’s fault but your own that you didn’t get to play.
Everyone is welcomed to come out and play and are encouraged to do so. Just because a few people decide to troll and talk-shit online doesn’t mean shit all in real life. If you come to play and become put off by a few select people, no one is going to force you to stay. But then again, this community consists of more than three players. So if you’re the type that’s easily offended, just ignore it and play with the other 20 people; you’re an adult now. As far as the psychology behind insulting someone to get them to play better, it doesn’t work for everyone. Aside from the 1%, no one walks around calling everyone a scrub every minute.
All-in-all, the Ottawa FGC is just not a very hungry/competitive community. It’s really up to the new/bottom people to take initiative if they want everyone to become a stronger player. Until then we’re all just filthy casuals and you can bet your sweet ass we’ll be staying free to the rest of the world.
@Livewire: If you really want to make a difference and have some weight behind your arguments, you need to start coming out. Don’t make excuses about how you can’t afford gas/your car is broken/you have no ride. There are people who bus an hour and a half just to come play for a few hours and then bus back home another 2 hours late at night.
Yeah, I get what you’re saying Remixed, and it’s good to see that you at least seem to like, ‘get’ what I’ve been trying to say and didn’t dismiss things you disagreed with as “garbage” and an excuse to go on about your avatar.
I can’t disagree with you in that I can only do so much from here and that to do more I need to like, pack up my console and get my ass over to the Gonq with my stuff. And yeah, you can only get so much done playing netplay, even if the game’s online code is as good as CP or TTT2’s is. I just simply try to do what I can from here for the time being when I can, and really, even if I can’t go, I can always mention the Gonq stuff to people I know that can, to help and things can go for there.
Also as Remixed said on the “insulting to shame you into getting better”, it more often than not just turns into “man, that guy’s a douche, fuck him”, instead of “I should spend 6 hours a day studying the matchup to shut him up”.
I think the league has potential, but as James pointe out, it’s important that we keep players rotating and not stuck with the same level of player. Only when you play someone better do you realize what you need to work on most.
I really like the idea @Essay has about online points. It’s soooo open ended that people can just play the matches they want to play.
My main issue with running a full bracket every week is dragging people off their marvel casuals to play one AE match. By the end of the night I can tell they would just rather forfeit than deal with another match cause they were doing something else.
If we do a PP system then people can just say “this is a ranking battle” and I will make note of it. We can designate some standards like they are all FT5s or whatever. But this way people can play the matches they want to play. I’ll randomize a couple of matches a night for everyone interested but we can also work out some kind of challenge system. You get more PP for beating higher ranked opponents and less for beating lesser ranked opponents.
And also everyone here is right about one thing. Attendance is 100% the most important thing for gaining respect and skill. You can’t get better if you don’t show up and play. It also doesn’t help the community if people just stay home and don’t make an effort. I want to put the effort in to organize a few things because I see there are a lot of dedicated players in Ottawa who show up every week. Are we as big as Montreal or X other city? No, but that doesn’t matter. You work with what you got. People don’t give this group enough credit.
