There is not many/any reasons to believe that he isn’t dead…
Yeah, but there is no reason for the White House correction to be untrue because it certainly seems way less spectacular and heroic to the public… it would definitely be in their best interest to have kept the first story since no one truly knows what occurred…
Could have been that the White House felt it was best to come out with the truth now, so they wouldn’t get called out in the future…
Who knows?
If Bin Laden was reaching for a gun, then I agree that he should have been killed. But if he was truly unarmed and not reaching for a gun, he should have been captured. We’ll never know the full details unless the administration releases the video of his death. If they’re worried about gore, they can cut the video right after the gunshot that killed him, or just blur his head or something. This is important because it determines the legality of the US action.
I know the mission was dangerous but more could have been done to capture him alive IMO. It seems like the priority was to kill him instead of capture. I’m starting to believe that even if he had surrendered willingly, they would have still killed him. They need to release the SEAL video already.
Anyone remembers the interview with Benazir Bhutto who was later assassinated the same month. She mentioned Osama was already killed by Omar Sheikh in Pakistan. But there is an extended interview that Bhutto spoke as if Osama might be alive, but can’t find the video.
[media=youtube]UnychOXj9Tg[/media]
On a side note. I kinda expect terror attacks hitting the US shortly. Just a gut feeling.
He should have surrendered any time in the last nine and a half years, or back in 1998, or before. I have no interest in bin Laden staying alive for anything other than logistical or strategic purposes.
With that said, they were on a timetable. Pakistan wasn’t told about the mission, and reportedly scrambled fighter jets after hearing about the mission, but they didn’t arrive until after the Americans were gone. The entire bin Laden mission was only 40 minutes long, and I’m sure that wasn’t by coincidence. In a situation where you have someone who is known to be involved in mass murder and suspected in ongoing plots, who is known to have engaged in warfare in the past, who says that he loves death- in short, a man who’s existence is a threat- and who must not be allowed to escape, one could certainly make the argument that shooting him was the best option at the time. But that would require a consideration of the details which nobody has.
You’re the kind of guy who’d refrain from harpooning a great, white shark on the off, chance it was toothless?
Really?
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so we slaughter people who don’t surrender, and go into hiding now? I don’t care how many people a person kills, as humans we still give them a fair trial and a chance to defend themselves in any way. Dumping his ass in the middle of the ocean afterwards doesn’t even really seem to compare to me at the time (I still DO have problems with that, but whatever).
Don’t try to convince me that not giving him a trial had nothing to do with his knowledge from working for the US back in the day, and whatever other shenanigans an Enemy of the USA would be entitled to likely know about. Every part of this reeks of a mob style hit. They didn’t kill him, or assassinate him. They shut him up.
I try staying away from this thread, but…hmm, i dunno how to end that sentence
And you’re the type of guy that would support the policy that everyone is guilty until proven innocent.
The real reason the Administration won’t release the SEAL vid is cuz they have something to hide.
Um.
No.
That is an incorrect assumption on your part.
I am the kind of guy who understands that he doesn’t step up to a predator without the understanding that it’s going to do its best to rip him the fuck apart, and thus I go armed, if I go at all.
Have you ever heard of the status: “Wanted: dead or alive.”?
Why do you think that came to be?
Pro tip: it was not due to the amiable nature of the persons designated thus.
If he was unarmed, given who he was, and what he has done (what he has admitted/bragged about, no less), and what he has asserted, time and time, again, that he still intends to continue doing, why in the nine hells would you hold the belief that he should be taken alive?
What innocence?
The lunatic has gone into detail as to his guilt in executing terror attacks, worldwide.
There is no guilty until proven innocent here.
Are you mad?
You’re not taking his word for his deeds?
What, he was lying about it to up his self-esteem?
That is insane.
So we could put him in shackles and alternate between throwing pies at his face and/or tomatoes and lettuce. It would alternate between days because nobody wants to see a mixture of pies and vegetables on the floor; just sounds gross looking.
That is stupid.
Why would we further endanger the lives of the heroes who deaded him, just to try and capture him alive in the middle of a foreign country that was defying world directive for them to hand him over?
There is no question as to his guilt.
You are demanding forms be followed that do not apply.
EDIT:
I know you are joking, my friend, but I feel the need to reiterate the point.
It’s like people actually don’t understand the fact that we are, in fact, at war with these people.
They understand it.
Hell, they declare it every goddamned day.
Wake up, please, yea self-righteous “fair trial” people; it isn’t a case of civil disorder or misconduct - it’s war.
Dumb-as-fuck statements like this are the reason I’m giving hope every day that giant collider obliterates the planet. *
*Note: I give hope for this regardless.
This is not a mob hit, it’s a military operation. Mob hits don’t consist of actively searching for the target, pinpointing a potential hideout, performing a months-long stakeout, confirming existence of target, and then waiting to receive the order before attacking said target.
Secondly, they shut him up? Osama is a snitch now? That’s why we killed him (or as you said, didn’t? wat?)? You’re sure it wasn’t because he was involved in a massive amount of murders that we went after him with the intent of capture / killing / not killing / assassinating / not assassinating him?
Even in war, there are lawful (and unlawful) actions that can take place. Such as executing an unarmed combatant who surrendered willingly (this is unlawful, and can carry a charge followed by prosecution in a military tribunal or a civilian court).
If there was unlawful action, this can only be confirmed by the contents of the SEAL vid that the Administration was watching at the time of the raid. Therefore they should release it. And please don’t tell me you buy their line that they’re not releasing it due to National Security concerns or that they want to keep secret the tactics of the SEAL team.
If Bin Laden resisted capture, then the Administration has more to gain then lose by releasing the vid:
-they will ultimately confirm Bin Laden’s death without a shadow of a doubt,
-they will validate their statements that there was no other choice but to kill him,
-but most importantly, they can show that his execution was a lawful action in conjunction with the values and principles that America is known to uphold.
I’ll reiterate this point, just in case you somehow missed it.
Bin Laden was wanted, internationally, dead or alive.
There have been countless instances in which he has demonstrated that he would kill whomsoever he deemed should die.
He has stated that he intends to destroy western civilization.
Why would…
…you know what?
Okay then.
What would you have done, in your obviously knowledgeable capacity as a tactical genius, that would have permitted the SEALS to capture Bin Laden whilst he hid, protected by the armies of Pakistan, a nation that, by doing this, has declared itself a terrorist nation, and at war with pretty much everyone else?
How would they have captured him without dying?
How would this have gone down.
Details, please.
Draw me a map of Middle Earth Middle East, as you perceive it to be, and how it could have been done.
What? People are still going on about this? I grew numb to this a while ago.
I’m not even looking forward to the movie version anymore. (Hurt Locker 2: Hurt More)
I’m kind of psyched for Hurt Locker 3.
Supposedly the war ends, and he wanders out into the desert waste, combing it for armed land mines, and stumbles upon the Garden of Eden, locating Original Hurt. The snake is already disarmed (and dislegged), and he actually manages to diffuse Yhwh without setting him off, but Eve is menstruating and, being the Biblically dumb bitch that she is, blows up on him.
I prefer the tin foil hat brigade, this is as old as time. JFK, area 51/groom lake, moon landing, who shot RR, birth cert, death cert, 9/11, even though most of this crap is public record. People want to believe something insane. Even thought most insane, and bat shit thing we ever did (MKULTRA) has been a matter of public record for a long fucking time now.
To be frank that doesn’t mean dick. I remember when we had an AF pilot bomb a NZ Army Major, a USN officer, and an Army SGT at a test range. Between what air controllers though happened, what the test range though happened, and what the pilot though happened it was like trying to figure out what a bowl of spaghettios says on acid. It’s always a mess, which is why in most cases where an idiot isn’t calling the shots (and since the White House is doing the press releases here, it’s idiot central) you just cut off all communications for a week, investigate, get everybody on the same page, and then say what the fuck went down. That this White House did the stupid, not shocked at all.
Makes no sense. Many people raided who “didn’t have a gun” had a bomb vest and promptly blew themselves up taking out the unit grabbing them at the time, plus there was a kill order on him, has been since Bush, fuck even since Clinton tried, Bush just put it on the books. It’s not practical to wait, what “well let’s see if he blows up the team and then if not arrest him” :wtf: not how a smash and grab goes. Plus it would again cripple the Democrats, Obama needed to kill him for political reasons, and he did it.
He could have done it even in the 70s-80s to the USSR dude has been up to this sort of shit for longer than most of us have been alive.
This is silly, and I’ll drop a little former USN goodness here. All op videos and BDA videos are secret, minimum, and often TS or above. Releasing them reveals optics, tactics, data, and all sorts of other shit you don’t want public. This is probably TS/SCI and belongs nowhere near the public.
At best, we will get a picture, and that is doubtful. I don’t care honestly, I certainly wouldn’t call the entire Navy, the SEALs, and the Pentagon a bunch of bold faced liars that they didn’t get him. Nor would I think the President just made this crap up. And I have no pressing urge to see another BDA.ppt slide, the crap is stupid, and unless you have a reason to see it for “lessons learned and how do we improve on this” fun time at a Naval or JSOC station, you have no reason to see it either.
When the government constantly lies or more appropriately
“is often economical with the truth”
people are always going to question the government. If the government is economical with the truth over trivial shit like Drugs, Economics, etc then why wouldn’t it lie about things that actually matter. This whole “tits or gtfo” attitude about Osama’s death won’t go away until the public gets “tits”. but I understand why they won’t release the photo’s. It can be compared to the alien thing. If aliens really existed and the government knew, why would it tell the people knowing the reaction to what should be an amazing revelation would lead to ultimate chaos. Its in thier best interest and ours to keep that information to themselves.
You think economics is trivial?
well, that doesnt mean you are to throw international wartime conventions out the window. "dead or alive’ doesnt neccessarily give you a license to issue an executive order to kill
hahaa, you are beingbit dramatic but if you believe Obama, then they in fact did capture him, and then killed him. Obama seems to have been very specific in his wording from day 1, stating that he was killed *after *a firefight, whilemost other administration officials (not justr Brennan) said he was kiled *during *a firefight (along with lots of other incoorect stuff said). IN fact, he continues to state specifically he was “captured and killed”. An eyewitness account states that bin laden was captured for ~10 min then shot in the head after. Now questions arise around the legality of the death and the administration claims that they had been wrong in saying there was even a visual feed of the raid.
I think everyone nkows that if Osama was brought back to the US for interrogation/trial it would be a political nightmare. So does killing him for political reasons sit well? Couldnt he have been an intel dream?
Im realize it is early in the game, and maybe Obama is trying out this transperancy thing foreal and so then this is just the type of ish that happens when you put out info to the public as sson as you get real time without hardcore checking; im just saying if your head isnt spinning with possibibilties then you oddboy.
i know this opens me up to being called naive, blleading heart, but I just think that the suspension of habeus corpus (whether or not it was done in this case) for noncitizen terrorists may be only a small step from the same done to US citizens accused of terrorism, which basically means the govt could just assassinate whoever they feel like on a whim. (and Im not advocating civilian trials)
?
so sorry for not trusting an ever changing (changing in a consistent direction) , erroneous narrative in the face of this percieved threat
just have a lot of questions thats all
LMAO.
So true.
Economics?
Wars?
I don’t follow…
It isn’t like the allocation of limited resources has ever had anything to do with wars…
:rolleyes: