Then what are most of yall then? Enlighten me
Bin Laden 9/11 planning video aired - World - CBC News
Bin Laden on tape: Attacks ‘all that we had hoped for’ - CNN
+tracking the highjackers to al Qaeda which bin Laden was the head of
+later confessions of AQ members and bin Laden himself
etc.
Kind. So kind, in fact, that I’m about to stomach an [media=youtube]UYop_8Rd48E"[/media] video to point out the things in it which are wrong.
Your absolutely right. A change in US foreign policy wouldn’t stop them from killing each other anymore than it stopped the Europeans from killing each other, but that’s a strawman. No one is suggesting that all of the problems would be solved or that world peace would ensue as a result. If that’s what they’re into, then fine, but that doesn’t mean that the US has to participate in it. The US can’t stop them from terrorizing and killing themselves, but it can indeed stop them from wanting to kill Americans. Staying the hell out of it would go a much longer way than engaging in needless, counterproductive wars and military operations that cost billions of dollars that could be better spent here in America.
Super Metroid, in 'da hooouuuse!
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Probably not the first one show, but…
[media=youtube]XSRARWv90R8#t=1m26s[/media]
Osama bin Laden …is dead.
No one asked you to believe it, I just wanted some thoughts, but dont point out Alex Jones as some horrid resource when the opposing resources “news period” are just as horrid
I’m loving the Musolini tags on here
Why do I get the feeling he was crying when he sent that rage filled message? lol what a failure
This song sums of the past few days for me, still hyped - [media=youtube]htFdjR-8aQc[/media]
Obama to Osama “Hell will have to freeze over twice before I let you go!” :rock:
Ninja Edit: HQ version - [media=youtube]wpFfM_dili4[/media]
This crap is STILL dominating the news. There’s Osama related articles on EVERY section of cnn.com yet no mention of gas going up 10 cents (here) overnight.
I know this is too much to ask mainstream media but: The fucker is dead! Now how about covering news that actually matters.
Uh oh this thread is now turning into a revolving door.
Musolini black, dudes
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They don’t claim him.
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It’s not a strawman, and the religious problems and utterly horrible culture in the middle east are far, far, far more fucked up than anything we’ve had to deal with in Europe or even Asia. And it’s also been far more fucked up for far longer. Hell it’s been fucked up since before most European nations even existed back in the dark ages.
You can’t just look at the region and just say “well all their problems started post WW2, so it must be due to America”, because when you look at history it’s been a royal cluster fuck throughout history of epic proportions.
To an extent we can’t. Globalization killed that dream off a long time ago. They missed the industrial revolution and never experienced a true earth shattering war. It took both of those experiences to cool down Euro and Asian hostilities, cause them to chuck religion by and large, and put aside cultural and clan based differences and zenophobia to some extent.
Till that happens we aren’t going to see things change there. We’ll be hated by whatever group unless we are helping them massacre another group. And we’ll be hated as long as any of our culture penetrates into the region and as long as we are seen as an hurdle in establishing a new Islamic Caliphate. Granted, not by everybody but by enough of them we can never stop a large enough portion from wanting to kill us that it’s pointless to care what they think.
The wars and actions are engaged in because it better suits are interests to do it rather than let things fester and blow up much farther. Some of their are misguided and we were wrong, in other cases we were correct. The two different Iraq wars are a good example. And those billions of bucks, well the create tons of jobs here and give us all sorts of technology we wouldn’t otherwise have. And good luck convincing any politician the money should be spent here. On what, science and research? Most of that is DoD anyways. On education? We can’t even agree what should be taught and our education system has been fucked into the ground by rednecks on the right and gang style teachers unions on the left, it’s a waste of cash. On infrastructure, see how far that high speed rail went.
If you cut that budget you’ll get a lecture about fiscal responsibility, tax cuts will flow the rich, thousands of good jobs making planes and advanced systems will be lost or outsourced, and then where will we be?
No, not by a mile. There is no mainstream news source which comes within anything near striking distance of being Alex Jones.
-:48- His initial claim is based on some guy named Steve Pieczenik claiming that bin Laden was dead all along. Why we’re expected to believe that Pieczenik would be privy to this information or is correct is not stated, but Jones uses it as an argument from authority- this guy worked for the government, once, and so we should believe what he says (evidence only that conspiracy theorists have a poor understanding of irony).
The nature of the claim itself is also dubious, because it can be applied to any situation at any time. Jones does/used to claim that we’d be attacked by fake terrorists (really our evil government, obviously) any day now, you just wait and see… When this never happened, he of course never pointed that out, but continued to make the claim, so that if it ever did happen, he could claim it as “evidence” of his conspiracy theories. This is much the same. If bin Laden was killed in 2004, it would have been so that Bush could have been re-elected. If it were in 2006 it would have been to boost his low approval ratings. If it were 2 weeks ago, it would have been to distract from Obama’s Birther issue, etc.
So, not only is there no evidence that this conspiracy theory about bin Laden being “on ice” is actually true, but there is essentially no element of timing whatsoever, which is at the heart of the conspiracy theory.
Incidentally, Steve Pieczenik is not a “high-level Council on Foreign Relations” member- the CFR being another subject of Internet conspiracy theories. He’s not a member at all.
-1:39- Then we get to Madeline Albright. “She went public,” as Jones prejudicially says, as if she’d made some sort of official proclamation. She said that she wouldn’t be surprised if Bush knew where bin Laden was, and used his capture to gain political capitol. I’ll remind everyone that didn’t fucking happen. So Alex Jones is using an example of a conspiracy theory which was wrong, to promote his conspiracy theory. Actually, in this case, he’s using the SAME THEORY WHICH WAS WRONG. It was, by the way, a common conspiracy theory at the time, so his subsequent claim that the reason it didn’t happen is because she talked about it is absolutely absurd.
BTW, Madeline Albright was not the Secretary of State during Bush’s terms, so it’s not like this was inside information. By the time 9/11 happened she’d been out of office the better part of a year.
-2:25- Some BS about “White House sources.”
-2:38- “CIA background” of bin Laden is a deceptive statement. The U.S. government aided the Taliban against the Soviets in the 1980s, but they did not train bin Laden nor were they directly involved with him, as is commonly misstated. I should point out here that bin Laden being a “CIA asset” (secretly working for the CIA this whole time) is a common thread in conspiracy theories, and what Jones is referencing with that statement.
Anwar al Awlaki was not bin Laden’s “#2,” nor is he “hanging out secretly at the Pentagon.” Not surprisingly, this is more deceptive language by Jones. Al Awlaki was invited to the Pentagon after 9/11 when he wasn’t known to be the supporter of terrorism that he is. Jones is trying to make it seem like he “secretly” hangs out there all the time, to support his conspiratorial bent.
WMDs and the Gulf of Tonkin are completely separate issues from Islamic terrorism and from each other, but Jones is trying to make them all fit together to BS what would appear to be a consistent pattern of behavior by the U.S. government, so that whatever insane claims he makes will seem plausible by relative comparison.
-2:58- Jones cites a bunch of things going on in the news at the present time (strength of the dollar, problems with Pakistan, etc). He doesn’t finish his thought, but that’s good, because then he doesn’t have to make a real point.
-3:40- The idea that “nobody is buying” that bin Laden’s body was dumped in the ocean is not true, and has no bearing on whether or not it actually happened.
-3:50- There were several methods used to ID bin Laden. People have been tracking him since before 2001, and obviously have been doing so with a great zeal afterwards. He was identified by face, by height, by DNA, and I assume other distinguishing characteristics. His body was also personally identified by one of his wives.
More deceptive phrasing from Jones- “this is the same government where the CIA agents last year admitted in the Washington Post that they created fake bin Laden videos.” This is taken grossly out of context, as you might expect if you’re familiar with Jones’ oeuvre. Not to mention that it fails as a point because he’s using evidence of something which didn’t happen, as evidence that it’s happening now.
-4:22- Jones points to somewhat-obviously-photoshopped pictures of a dead bin Laden as proof of…something. Intoning that the government/media somehow manufactured and displayed these pictures as propaganda. This has no basis in fact, and doesn’t make sense.
-4:40- The claim that bin Laden has been killed nine separate times seems dubious, but I won’t bother even looking into it. I will say that it doesn’t really make sense, as it runs counter to a credible conspiracy theory. If Jones’ point is that bin Laden has been dead for years and that people have just been waiting to make the announcement, it would make no sense to make that announcement nine times, especially without the amount of information being presented now. Then again, all of these theories fall apart when you really look into them, so…
-5:00- As far as I know, Khalid Sheik Mohammed has not confessed to bombing any buildings which were “built after he was incarcerated,” and given Jones’ poor track record, I doubt the veracity of this claim. The Bali nightclub bombing, for example, happened after KSM was captured. However, he is not accused of bombing that building, but of having a role in the methodology of the attack. And if you were going to force a false confession as Jones is implying, why would you force a confession for an event which the suspect could not have been involved? What good would that do, other than to cast doubt on the rest of the confessions?
And if KSM were going to confess to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, to say that he did it “2011 years ago” is some pretty shitty math.
-5:44- Jones moves on to his typical fear mongering- this is all a ruse to start more wars, to start a bigger “domestic crackdown” by the government, etc etc. He gives no specifics, and when this doesn’t happen, he’ll not mention that part.
Populist BS about banks, and some more CT stuff about world government being announced. Blah blah blah, “police state.”
nominate TS’ post for article
imo
I think conspiracy theorists have ego issues. The trotting around of “Only I, and a select few REALLY know what’s going on” is something that’s pretty astounding. It’s the reason why a fucking lunatic like Alex Jones would gain any traction among people. People want to think that things are going to shit, and only they know it. “EVERYBODY ELSE ARE SHEEP! ONLY I KNOW THE REAL TRUTH!”
It’s kinda sad.
Actually its kinda fucked up with them because they do get a lot of really important information that the mainstream media doesn’t, but then they always go to the same conclusion that it is a conspiracy behind it. I’m not a conspiracy nut in any way shape or form, but I like looking around at random groups to see what’s up with them. When it comes to a lot of the documentation Jones has, some of them are legit government documents that say what he says they do. Both of his site have a mix of links to news that have gone under the radar or articles; which is where some of the confusion is.
The one big problem he has is that he takes any evidence as proof of the big scary boogeyman as opposed to something else.
I forget who but some group did psychological studies on this. They found that people who buy into conspiracies do it to seek order in their world. Because it makes far more sense that people are in control and there is an explanation for 9/11-JFK, whatever, rather than “bad shit happens and somethings things go wrong”.
TS- heading to bed real quick but just a quick comment on your post: you might want to create a tl:dr version of it at the bottom which takes the total amount of lies generated by Alex Jones divided by the time it takes to say them. We can call this LPM, the lie-per-minute ratio. It could be a very useful quantifier considering the sheer volume of conspiracy theory garbage about.
If you got a link, I would love to read it. I remember I was watching one of the videos on my quartely stroll through all those different websites and looked up a couple of the executive orders they mention in one of the videos and they all checked up. Pretty lol worthy that there is an executive order signed that says the president can suspend the constitution.
Hiiilarious.