Orlando Pulse Nightclub Shooting: Largest Mass Shooting in US History

General Discussion
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Isn’t it crazy how everyone is at fault but islam.

When my family goes to church on sunday they don’t go there and hear kill the gays ever. Even in my time spent in catholic schools, meeting people with the diocese of brooklyn and all the bishops and priests i’ve interacted with, I have never ever heard any of them call for the murder of anyone ever. They were extremely against it. Even though I am no longer a christian i sympathize with them. They have spent their life doing charities and promoting people to do things and were overall anti violence. These were good people. When asked about gay marriage they simply said that Marriage is between a man and a woman. When asked about homosexual sex they simply said that it is a sin but that they should be forgiven, Disagree with the approach but its not violent and something you can ignore. But they are Christians they are at fault.

Can someone please explain to me how how how how how HOW in the FUCK is that equatable to imams in mosques RIGHT IN FLORIDA CALLING FOR THE DEATHS OF PEOPLE FOR THEIR “SINS.” Its actually kind of scary how desperate people are to pivot towards Christians. How are christians at fault here? How are anti-gay marriage justices and judges at fault here? How is every person and ideology from vandal savage to hail hydra at fault BUT islam? And when Islam is finally blamed, why is it always followed by “BUT CHRISTIANS ARE WORSE.”

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Here’s the thing about us catholics and lapsed catholics

We don’t try to convert. You can do what you want at home.

Everybody has to do the kneeling, the lord’s prayer, and communion. We were all forced into it. The levity came from the sermons. We don’t get doom
And gloom we always get do better, help your fellow man, don’t judge

Nothing about false gods, stone the heretics, and mary is a whore bullshit

Catholicism is shit base on the many child rapist

But there are many rabbi and imam who touch kiss too

The problem is more of the message the church wants to send

I really think nuns and priests should be able to marry and have kids. That bs rule was created because of cardinals and the pope have direct descendants acting like kings

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I’m just going to leave this here:

Your view of Christianity is through your, no doubt, normal experience. You hear shit like this guy, and you go: “that guys fucking nuts” and dismiss him.

In comparison, you probably haven’t been to many mosques or know many muslims. You hear shit like those Imams and think “Wow, are they ALL like that?”

BOTH are fucking problems. NEITHER are representative.

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[quote=“Renegade, post:420, topic:180032”]

It is worse than Christianity. Christianity doesn’t have something like Jihad engrained into it’s culture. However, that is really irrelevant. Christianity certainly had some bad times and did some pretty terrible things, nobody can deny that. The main difference is that these bad times were hundreds and hundreds of years ago, Islam is a modern religion that acts like we are still in the Stone Age. No organized religion is good imo, but Islam is BY FAR the worst and most dangerous atm.

I’m sorry to say this, but your comparisons are just laughably bad. Comparing Muslim occupied Spain to Native Americans? Really? It doesn’t make sense. Compare the people who occupied Spain before the Muslim Conquest to those 300 years after and you will undoubtedly have two completely different groups. The same could be said of North American and Natives. Also, huge LOL at “it’s not that different from what’s going on over here”. You’ve seriously got to be joking with that? Are we stoning people to death? It’s just a horrible comparison. This will probably be my last comment on the topic anyway…

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I’m taking it you never did well on reading comprehension tests in school. You miss entire connections and fail to grasp complex, nuanced points. When I compare two things, I’m not saying A=H, I’m saying there are some takeaways and similar things. Maybe if the two sides of H get bent, you get an A. The middle bar is pretty much the same, though. It’s a complex discussion.

You then reply: “NO WAY A=H, that’s just insane! Completely different letters! You’re a moron!”

I said they once had a culture that respected science, learning, and even allowed women to wear what they wanted to. Had peaceful relations with subjects of minority religions. Then the empires fell, colonialism divided the land into groups that didn’t get along, war, war, war, and then the fundamentalists took over, and everything went to shit. My comparison to the USA was obviously to the “before” fundies picture, not the “after” fundies. A major difference preventing us from becoming the “after” is that we have a developed nation where people live pretty good lives, so blowing ourselves up for religious salvation doesn’t really track well in focus groups.
Since wiping Islam off the face of the planet is not really an option, option B is to maybe improve peoples lives to the point where blowing themselves up doesn’t have a better approval rating than anchovies.

426

I’m glad I was raised catholic and not any other religion.
Parents/school/church never said a single bad word against homosexuality or hellfire really. Plus school taught real sciences and evolution. Sure we had religion class, but that was mainly answering dumb questions and watching the 10 Commandments.

And after I decided to not believe in anything, my parents never even gave me a hard time. They just said “Ok cool.”

Mormons, JW, Baptists, pure Christians have so much more baggage.

427

This is devolving into a religion thread: we tend to lock those as people get heated. I appreciate that this hasn’t gotten out of hand, let’s keep it that way. :tup:

428

Alright… Let’s fire this fukken topic up!

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Don’t take it out on me just because you can’t make a good comparison. You also make this really broad assumption that I have never been to any Mosque or know any Muslims, what evidence do you have (also that is extremely presumptuous)? I assume that you’re a frequent Redditer that just read “A People’s History” for the first time (“you fail to grasp the complex, nuanced points” rofl), but I don’t have any evidence so I won’t bring it up (oops, nvm).

Just to be clear, I get where you were trying to go with the comparison, it’s just that it really makes no sense at all, despite the alleged “complex points”. It just gets so tiresome to hear people like you constantly try to make excuses for Islam’s bullshit by saying stuff like “but but look at Christianity, they did this”. Christian leaders aren’t encouraging stoning people to death, encouraging martyrdom, encouraging terrorism, etc. Like I said before, Christianity isn’t without flaws, but to try and act like it is as big a problem as Islam is a joke that only an apologist would make. Islam clearly can’t coexist with Western ideals, so something needs to be done. The first step should be to not allow any refugees into the country. After that, I’m not really sure, but unfortunately I think it will have to involve some sort of military action, I just don’t see any other way tbh

430

[quote=“drunkards_walk, post:417, topic:180032”]

No shit. I had to rewind the part where he said that whatever punishment the Quran, Allah, whatever dictates then it is perfectly acceptable to carry it out, including death, stoning, etc.

Yeah, this is a pretty fucked up religion.

lol at random white guy who looked like he didn’t want to be there.

431

Actually, the point about not having been to mosques or know muslims was to Negative-zero. Who was basically like “my catholic church in brooklyn was chill, they didn’t sound anything like that”

I’m not a redditor.

I’m also not excusing the acts of terrorists. They’re fucked up, and something needs to be done. But terrorists come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and religions. More muslims are dying from these guys than non-muslims. Who do you think the Syrian refugees are running FROM, exactly? Why are they running, then?

But when people start talking like “Islam is the problem. It’s violent, we need military action, there’s no other way.” You’re making the fight a MUCH bigger us vs them than it has to be. You’re excluding potential allies, and throwing out the possibility for peaceful change. Between that kind of rhetoric and actual military action, it is much easier for fundamentalist leaders to paint us as the bad guy, you know?

If you WANT a clash of civilizations, keep talking like that. It’s obviously what the terrorists want too. I, for one, see that as end of the world type stuff, and so naturally want to find other options.

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What peaceful solution could you possibly see when dealing with a group of people who believe that they will be rewarded for killing in the name of Allah? Do I want a clash of civilizations? Obviously not, but we aren’t being left with a lot of options here.

One more thing. I’m sorry, it’s a sad thing to say, but the Syrian refugees can go hang as long as some of them are terrorists. They just flat out shouldn’t be allowed in the country (or any Western country for that matter). The fact of the matter is that a minority group can ruin things for everyone.

Let’s take an example. Imagine you are throwing a house party, and you have 50 close friends/relatives inside, people you trust. Waiting outside are 50 more people that you don’t know, but they want in on the party. Through a source of yours, you discover that one of the 50 strangers, once inside, will massacre 75% of the party. Unfortunately, you don’t know his identity, you just know that he is out there. Would you still let the strangers inside? I kindly doubt it…

433

You know that over 80% of terrorists arrested/killed since 9/11 are full US citizens, right? 40% of them are white?

Your example only works because you KNOW someone is a killer, and they apparently can kill 75% of the people in your house all at once.

When actually it is this.

You’re throwing a party starting in 2001. You have 300 million people in your house. 195,000 of them will be killed by people already in the house since 2001 no matter what you do.
777,000 refugees have shown up asking to be let in since the party started in 2001. 10 them are terrorists. Most of them will be prevented from doing anything before they do it.

Do you let them in?

434

As someone who has lived and grown up in the bible belt. Christians can be pretty fucked up. All the Christians here where I live talk about killing gays, nuking towelheads, putting women in their place, putting nig*ers in their place, and all that other ancient bullshit way of thinking. When the shooting happened they were like “good”. But when that 2 year old got taken by that gator they were all "oh why does God let these things happen. He works in mysterious ways, let us pray for the family,etc.
They definitely don’t see all human life as equal. And I know not all Christians are like this. But, you’d be wrong to think that there aren’t a shit load out there that are. I also know Muslim people that I work with at my job. They’re much nicer than most of the Christians in the area. Lol.

I mean I know motherfuckers who believe the earth is flat and that dinosaur bones were put here by Satan to test their faith. Here where I live the most unintelligent people I know are the average Christian. And I don’t even live that deep in the bible belt. Just western Kentucky. The point of what I’m saying is that there are people out there that do support the killings of gays and minorities that aren’t just muslim. And the biggest problem is definitely religion, a lack of an education, as well as just plainly not giving a fuck about other people.

435

No you don’t. Even if only 10 of them are terrorists (lol, yeah right), well then that’s tough shit because 10 is too many. It’s one thing to have to worry about domestic terrorism. It is another thing to have to worry about domestic terrorism in addition to terrorists you are letting in to the country free of charge. Also what does race have to do with anything?

436

I’m not quite sure how you live, tbh. Do you expect every driver to plow into you head on?

Do you go on every date with a stun gun and an exit strategy?

Do you wear kevlar to the mall?

Were you afraid of ebola or zika?

Remember when I said earlier that most people have no concept of proportional risk and probability? My girlfriend told me that, she’s got a PhD in psychology with a side of statistics.

Sure, there’s some risk of letting people in. But there could also be the people who have a great time at the party, go back home and tell all their friends about it?

That’s long term hearts and minds stuff.

437

Literally 50% of my co workers are Muslim, but they are american muslims. The extreme moderates. We have one who just came from africa who s sort of extreme in the way he talks but i’m not worried about him. You think i haven’t had these conversations with them? They agree with me.

Secondly they have actual military groups that we can identify (sort of) and fight. The other battle is one of ideology. This guy was a lone wolf who was raised by an afghan terrorist sympathizer muslim, he was completely ensconced in his victim mentality told to him by ISIS propaganda (and the left), and he was already investigated by the FBI. If he were to read this thread right now who do you think would be justifying his world view?

And end of the world? lol. These people are the Yamchas of earth. The countries of the world just have a Superman complex.

438

That’s the thing, i am totally just an agnostic asshole. But nobody really forces you to be catholic when you reach 18 or get confirmed. The bullshit christians trying to save you because you aren’t the right kind of religion? That fucking irritates me

When people talk shit about the religion. Eh, i never had a bad encounter at catholic church.

Went to a christian church once. Hated it so much

439

I’m quite sure I have just as good an understanding of risk and probability as your girlfriend (or even better), but I’m not going to go there as I can see this quickly escalating into a pissing contest. I’m sorry, but if we let in 10,000 Syrian refugees and only 2 of them end up committing acts of terror, that is a serious problem. It’s not worth the risk at all, and the simple solution is no more refugees until this situation dies down. I’m all for helping them, sending aid, military training, whatever, but they don’t get to come here

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