so… i just started playing gouken and im trying to figure out what i can do after j. mk, s. fp and DP (jab, medium or fierce). I’ve tried EX tatsu and shoryuken ultra… what can i follow up with after DP? whether its jab, medium or fierce…
If by DP you meant the palm strike, then your only options are denjin and super if you want to juggle. Denjin will require an FADC if you’re not in the corner, but if you have the two meters to spend to FADC, you may as well have opted for EX palm instead.
If you’re asking about an oki game, a cheap gimmick after landing a non-ex palm is to dash once and do HK flip -> grab.
it’s also possible to hit some characters with dj.hk in the corner after a lp.palm out of the air.
yeah i meant palm strike, i didn’t know the exact name of it at the time of writing so i went with the input lol. so instead of FADC’ing I should just opt for EX palm? What are my options to follow up after EX palm?
by dj you mean diagonal jump?
indeed.
There are too many to just list, but here are my mainstays…
non-corner:
hp.palm
dash hk.tatsu (fails on some characters, such as adon and guile)
dash step sweep
dash step cr.mp xx flip shenanigans
U2 fullspeed and held for 5 hits
fadc dj.mp 1hit juggle U1
dash step U1 (SUPER tight timing)
corner:
hp.fb lp.fb sweep
hp.fb (hk/ex).tatsu
hp.fb lp.fb mp (overhead cr.lp xx lp.palm denjin / cr.lk xx lp.palm denjin)
dj.hp left/right shenanigans
hp.fb mp.palm denjin
u1
and im sure others have other stuff they like as well.
thanks a lot im gonna hit the lab with these
I so read that title wrong. thought you meant options after DP as in double penetration. Guess we know where my mind is.
lol “dragon punch” thats like fastest way to say shoryuken motion, pretty much what i got used to saying. but im changing the thread title just in case
While you are free to use any option you like, here are some you should remember in the back of your head for spontaneous opportunities and developing your playstyle:
Non-EX palm:
- If you land one of these in the corner (or near it), you can juggle a Denjin for additional damage. A common mistake you may run into is that you keep getting EX flip instead of Denjin. Aside from executional error, it’s possible you execute the move too soon. I don’t quite know if this is factual but I found this to be a recurring problem when I was practicing this. It’s easier to see the peak of their spinning flight when you strike them with the palm in the corner, but basically, you want to have pressed :kkk: by the time they start descending from their fall. I believe that is the earliest you can do Denjin after recovering from palm.
Some people suggest increasing the speed on the denjin (mashing directional inputs during Ultra freeze) to reduce the chances of it whiffing (in case you did it late), but I never have to, and it never made sense to me if it’s point blank given that startup time is the same either way. But yeah, I thought I’d shared that so you don’t get the impression you actually have to do that.
EX-palm (midscreen):
[details=Spoiler]
-Finishing with HP Palm is standard. The timing isn’t strict and the damage is solid and consistent. I always go to this for simplicity’s sake. Finishing with dash > HK Tatsu, on paper, is superior because it does more damage than HP palm. Execution is a bit more challenging but overall not very difficult. You just have the added chore of remembering which characters the Tatsu will whiff on.
-Finishing with EX Tatsu. I’m conservative on meter usage so using dash > EX Tatsu is bad use of meter to me. The only time I would sweat the idea of using it is if I’m close to finishing a round and I want the extra insurance of EX Tatsu dealing slightly more damage than HK Tatsu. This is of course if (1) you don’t have a denjin readily available or (2) if the EX palm’s launch won’t send the opponent to the corner wall while having a Shin Shoryuken available.*
-Finishing with Shin Sho. This is one of your options I’d invest less time in. If you’re going to opt for the option of not using FADC as an aid to land a full animation Shin Sho, it’s going to be a tough one to get down consistently. If you going to use FADC, it’s worth knowing and practicing a few times. You can dash once, wait, and then do it. Or you can dash twice and perform it immediately upon recovering from the second dash. Do note this would’ve costed you 3 meters and FADC scales your damage too. The damage ain’t high. Another option after FADC is using dj.mp as an extra juggle which makes landing Shin Sho extremely easy, but again, the scaling kicks in, and a lot of flowchart Goukens do this all the time so IMHO dj.mp looks uncool. But even with scaling accounted for, I would imagine this would do more damage than EX Tatsu. When you put that in the situation of securing a round, you have the option between the two, so make that split-second decision while Gouken’s doing his two-hit EX palm.
-Finishing with dash > sweep. I want to make this my staple followup instead of HP palm for 2 reasons. HP Palm sends my opponent away, resetting the direction of the fight back to a neutral game. When I play a smart player, I’m either in a neutral game or I’m stuck in defense. If I have the opportunity to get in and play the offense, I don’t want to miss it. Sweeping gets me a hard knockdown which by nature of Street Fighter puts you in an advantageous position. A successful sweep means I can now start working in any demon flip kick, cmd dive kick setups I may have. [/details]
EX-palm (near or at the corner):
-If you’re not all the way at the corner, but the opponent has reached the back wall…
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Depending on the specific distance, you can actually squeeze in a lp or mp fireball followed by a mp palm. It’s hard to describe the specific sencarios, but once you get a sense of how fast your fireball travels and whether you can determine a mp fireball can reach the falling opponent in time, you will be able to decide which fireball strength to go for during the situation at hand. If you find that you’ll go for lp fireball, try and hit them at the earliest point as possible to help increase your chance of landing the mp palm afterwards. The earlier the palm strike connects, the higher the opponent will soar in the air which makes a potential Denjin follow up all the more easier.
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If you just want the damage, if you are able to dash in (with FADC), you can go right into Shin Shoryuken. You can by option tack in an extra fireball in between for a bit more damage.
-If you’re at the corner by the time EX Palm ends, if…
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you’re looking to end the juggling with a Denjin, you can go the easy route: hp fireball, lp/mp palm, Denjin… or you can add in a second fireball: hp fireball, lp fireball, lp palm, Denjin
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you want your hard knockdowns: hp fireball, lp fireball, sweep.
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you want damage that doesn’t involve ultra: hp fireball, lp palm (the earlier you can connect this, the better), either jump back or jump forward HK. HK would cause a soft knockdown. You can play with the situation to work out any setups. I haven’t worked on this at all. Instead of lp palm, you could go for HK/EX Tatsu (if that would secure the round), but everyone knows doing HK tatsu in the corner isn’t the smartest thing to do and EX tatsu is still (in my eyes) a bad use of meter for ending a long juggle.
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want to gamble on resets, some people do dj.hp at a specific timing, and upon landing they either dash or walk forward to move behind the opponent by crossing under them. Some other people gamble on using a grounded normal to cause a reset, but would in addition, cancel the said normal move into demon flip. This should probably be used sparingly, because a smart player will knock you out of the air before you get to do anything with the flip.
the root cause of this is that denjin does not support negative edge.
Characters like Hakan do not bounce high and will cause you to whiff in the corner, so you have to speed it up to make sure that you catch his hit box. On most characters it’s not a problem b/c they bounce up high enough.
I never thought Hakan was a problem, but I just tested it and you’re right. I never realized that.
My theory that the fireball already makes contact with the opponent the moment we reach its active frames was untrue then… because like I said, if it was, there wouldn’t have been a need to churn butter. Thanks for bringing that up.
What are you both on about? There is no need to speed-boost the Denjin in the corner after regular Palms, even with Hakan or Hugo.
Please test before you start just typing shit.
Hakan does NOT float high and you CAN miss him in the corner. If it’s after EX Palm he’s already high enough so it doesn’t matter but it definitely happens after regular Palm and fadc.
I did already test it, just to double-check it.
I suspect it’s just your imagination that it helps in the corner.
I also imagine a world without you in it. Too bad you aren’t so eager to make that a reality.
Eh, I dunno what to make of that… :o
Can we argue less, please?
You’re right that it isn’t mandatory. I myself was able to hit Hakan without accelerating the Denjin, but only like once or twice out of many attempts. Given how low the success rate is for me, I’d opt to make the Denjin go faster to improve my chances. If you can do it without regularly, good for you. Keep it up.
People don’t take in account other factors that lie in the game meta.
Character hit box, on line lag, and how the FADC was performed also account for execution variables.
For example you can palm someone if they are just outside the corner and cause them to float on the corner wall.
Depending on how tall/big that character is allows them to stick on the wall longer and farther out. Eg. You can Palm FADC Sagat farther out, than what you could Hakan/El Fuerte etc. (a smaller character).
Basically corner carry… and depending on how high they are on the screen you may need to speed it up.