Currently Im working on making a balanced Oni that can fight well vs most of the cast. So I did give a Link to my twitch of my current Oni but he is broken and needs a super tone down.
Now the current version needs patched up stuff:
Ok then, how about this?
Walk speed now increased to match Balrog.
-General
-Focus Attack lvl 2 range increased few units
-S.HK now untechable knockdown on 2nd hit, 1st hit now a resets
**-Sweep **
–Juggle state is at 2 and is only fast enough for DP > FADC 2nd Hit> Sweep
– Now Adjusted to a 6 or 7 Frame sweep instead of 9 Frame
-(Command)/Normals/ Unique
-F+MK now faster and about .1 or .2 units lower to hit cr. opponents
-Target Combo 2 Adjust to hit some characters it whiffs mid combo (Yun , Yang, Sakura, Rose)
-Tatsu
-Lk tatsu and air tatsu now Akuma properties
-F+HP now causes a knockdown + pushback instead of reset (Like F+HK but only for Air opponents)
-Slash Adjustments
–Slash Frame Advantage on Block adjused
—Lk. Slash = -1
—MK. Slash = -3
—HK. Slash = -5
—Ex Slash = -7 on all newer versions
–Ex Slash has different versions all projectile invincible and 2-3 Frame startup hit invincibility
—LK-MK = LK version
—LK+HK= MK Version
—MK+HK= HK Version
—EX Slash now FADC Cancellable
- Adding Command Dive Kick
-Demon Ground Pound Adjustments
–Able to adjust trajectory (aka Like El Fuerte special run grabs)
–HK and Ex. versions now have a back hitbox matching the shock wave
-Dragon Punch
–LP Version in general all Shoto’s invincibility
–Ex DP now an untechable knockdown instead of first hit only connecting.
–DP Now Cancellable on Block and 3rd Hit
I will put this on YouTube. Just need to edit it but yeah I will.
Completed Oni Buffs. Needs a lot of nerfs from my version but Capcom can understand the idea of how Oni combos works and his damage needs a huge nerf due to some changes.
Does boss mode walk speed improve his ability to maneuver, get in, and pressure, or adjusting his walk speed to Balrog speed more beneficial?
Could you extend his Kara range?
Did you adjust startup and recovery on air Ultra 1? If you can you should.
FADC from 3 hit is not necessary, because you can score untechable knockdown with DP>FADC>mk.Stomp. Being able to link b+mp or f+hk would be better.
Is st.fp super cancelable like f+fp?
The New animation after the raging demon in Errors video is sick, but comboing afterwards is not needed.
All stomps should be overheads like Chun-Li’s Hosanchu.
I prefer the downward motion on EX Tatsu after an air dash rather than buff
The juggle state from b+mp and being able to hit airborne w/TC2 into sweep might be OP. The link cr.lk>cr.jab>st.jab>sweep and b+mpx2>sweep is BEAST. I see it similar to Ryu options and strong, strong, sweep.
EX. DP should not be untechable knockdown on 3rd hit. Adding that plus FADC on block would be broken. It has untechable knockdown properties if you just hit first hit of EX. DP
Instead of the pushback on f+fp on air opponents, you can incorporate wall bounce better follow up than zoning with his crappy fireball game
st.lk to fireball or tatsu should be an easier link
Your balance buff suggestions are so awesome but, I have little faith Capcom will give him any of your suggestions or anything to make him real competitive.
@darkesthadou Your buffs were great and the community had great suggestions, but like I said,“I have little faith in Capcom.” He got one of your suggestions, two of the communities suggestions, and some nerfs. What do we know at this point?
Step Kick now 11f from 13…nice
Range increased on focus attack…nice
DMG and Stun on lk. Demon Slash nerfed… horrible
Can now cancel on block first hit of DP…not needed. Get ready to see more random non punishable srk’s.
Sweep from 9f to 8 with slightly better recovery…oooh not nice or horrible. As of now its meh.
All electric fireball has 2 less frames of recovery…no big deal
Input on U2 is now quarter circle motion instead of half…awesome
Air U1 better startup…nice, but I would have like to have a better hit box for his vertical U1.
Something was done to mk. Stomp, but nothing good.
Sarcastically said, “Capcom thanks for not addressing his walk speed, f+fierce, f+rh, cr. mk, his stomp game, and punish ability factor on many if not all specials. Thanks for focus we don’t need, the jury is out on combined ultras, and stages we didn’t ask for. You said you would be submitting many suggestions from community and I say,“BS!” Thanks a lot for the update.”
@darkesthadou Your buffs were great and the community had great suggestions, but like I said,“I have little faith in Capcom.” He got one of your suggestions, two of the communities suggestions, and some nerfs. What do we know at this point?
Step Kick now 11f from 13…nice
Range increased on focus attack…nice
DMG and Stun on lk. Demon Slash nerfed… horrible
Can now cancel on block first hit of DP…not needed. Get ready to see more random non punishable srk’s.
Sweep from 9f to 8 with slightly better recovery…oooh not nice or horrible. As of now its meh.
All electric fireball has 2 less frames of recovery…no big deal
Input on U2 is now quarter circle motion instead of half…awesome
Air U1 better startup…nice, but I would have like to have a better hit box for his vertical U1.
Something was done to mk. Stomp, but nothing good.
Sarcastically said, “Capcom thanks for not addressing his walk speed, f+fierce, f+rh, cr. mk, his stomp game, and punish ability factor on many if not all specials. Thanks for focus we don’t need, the jury is out on combined ultras, and stages we didn’t ask for. You said you would be submitting many suggestions from community and I say,“BS!” Thanks a lot for the update.”
You do realize that if they sped up the slashes it they would have to make them more punishable on block to balance them.
what would making mk slash -3 instead of four change? what would making hk slash- eight instead of nine accomplish?
what would cutting one frame of start up to his far pokes achieve? would he be able to punish things he wasn’t already able to?
do your suggested changes affect his bad matchup or ranges in any meaningful way? you can’t just throw out suggestions without any reasoning behind them, matchup examples would help.
I guess I can throw in some of my own suggestions in here.
-2 on cr.HK start up frames:Rolento’s Delta attack (all versions), and Bisons Scissor kicks (all versions) are unpunishable at all ranges on block. Reducing his sweep to 6 start up will allow him to punish all of Rolento’s Deltas and Bisons EX and HK scissor kicks. I believe M.Bison vs Oni matchup is still 7:3 in Bisons favor unless something changed in Ultra that I am unaware of, and Rolento is currently a 6:4 vs Oni as well. I believe this change will drastically increase the imbalance of these match ups and bring Bison and Rolento to 5:5.
-1 on cr.MK start up frames and 0 frames on block: On the same note currently Balrog’s MP dashing straight is unpunishable which contributes to his current 6:4 match up. Reducing cr.mk by 1 would allow for a punish after a block, as well as take him out of the lead for worst cr.MK of all the shotos and on par with Ryu and Akuma, leaving E.Ryu with the worst start up. Also neutralizing the negative frames on block would give Oni a true cr.mk > fireball block string (so the fireball can’t be focused through on block) and also strengthen his ability to stay safe (he needs it badly).
Remove the cross up properties for EX. Stomp This one is just self-explanatory. Why would I ever want to use a bar of EX to bait a wake up when I can just use lk version. It’s presence is only there to cause frustration and add to yet another reason why Oni is one of the most punishable characters in the game.
Removal of all active frames of regular fireball (all versions) As explained in the other thread Oni already has an absolutely terrible fireball, coupled with the fact that it has the punishability of a missed ultra on whiff (52-67 total frames per fireball compared to 27-34 for every other shoto) is adding insult to injury. There is absolutely no reasoning behind this and it should be removed.
The previously stated: Return to 1000 health, and improve his dash distances
I can’t think of anything else but I think these changes would at least get Oni out of next-to-bottom tier and into a usable state, possibly akin to Akuma’s current position. (Jee wizz, Akuma’s demon transformation being on par with Akuma. That doesn’t make any sense at all! /endsarcasm).
cdrive would you mind if i posted your buffs in the capcom unity thread? very well thought out and written, shit i didnt even know about the total frames of onis fireball being garbage. I just felt that it was somehow easier for ppl to jump in on me because i have to throw it from closer ranges then other shotos/im garbage at spacing them out.
Feel free Boxinstevefox, any exposure is good and yea, the total frames of Oni’s fireball are brutal - we are vulnerable for literally half a second longer than the next worst shoto (Akuma) and at least Akuma has air fireballs to make up for the weakness of his grounded versions. The fact that it only shoots half screen coupled with Oni’s generally shitty ability to get in from medium range is a joke at best. Keep in mind there is a little bit of a conflict of information as all frame data available suggests lp.gohado actually has a recovery total of 67 while hp.gohado has a recovery of 62 BUT In Combofiends’ post about Oni Ultra changes he suggests the recovery frames are actually 52 for lp.gohado and 67 for hp.gohado.
So I’m not really sure which is right, as even the ‘official’ brady games frame data app has it listed at 67 and 62, but I’ve edited my original post to reflect Combofiend’s numbers as he works at Capcom so chances are he’s right.