I was thinking of using C-claps and clamp the USB bracket to the table.
If there was enough interest in something like this, I know I could manufacture a neat little bracket that held some 1. Low rent USB Cable mounts or 2. a Neutrik Adapter or two to run USB Cables back to the console hidden away. Doing a wide base with a small vertical peice wouldn’t be difficult at all.
I mostly wonder why a device that touts programmable macros as a major selling point is under consideration in the first place when pretty much every major tournament bans programmable controllers.
I mean, I know there’s some leeway when it comes to this (allowing sticks with turbo functions as long as turbo is turned off, for example), but this kind of strikes me as a bigger deal.
It’s a situation where there’s no real alternative providing equivalent features, really; if there was a good, widely-available option without it, we could be picky, but if there’s one thing on the market that can provide for the need (that people are actively wanting), it’s a little harder to justify. Flexing the rules becomes more agreeable, even if it’s sub-optimal. Similar to how turbo functions are disallowed, but we allow sticks with them because like all sticks have them. At a certain point, we just have to trust that people play by the rules – an undetectable PCB swap could add macro features to any controller. You can’t police everything; just have rules in place so that, if someone’s found out to be using the stuff, you can kick them out without question.
Causing lag and/or doing things to consoles, however, is… less agreeable.
It piss some people off but I think the head or the tournament, the person in charge should reserve exclusive rights to ban any controller/device at his or her discretion.
This power should only belong to the head of the tournament and no other tournament staff is allowed to have this authority.
I’m a TO and my opinion is:
http://mle.mymiddleearth.com/files/2013/07/aint-nobody-got-time-for-that.png
I mean you see one questionable looking stick.
You doubt anyone should use it, especially at your tournament.
Do you
A. Allow it to be used anyways?
B. Use your Powers and ban the stick?
I’d look at it and ask questions first, but my time is valuable when I provide gaming at events because not only do I have to make sure all runs smooth and legit, but I have to play the “face” and socialize with people and such. Luckily since I’m a TO who knows his arcade stick/controller/adapter shit I can make a quality judgement call and it’s rare that I see someone use something that I’m not familiar with, but not every TO will have that opportunity/experience/knowledge.
Another thing is since there are reports that the CronusMax screws up the USB ports (whether it’s due to bent pins or excessive voltage stuff), I will ban anything that will “potentially or reportedly” cause my consoles to fuck up. Not only is my time my money, but my money is my money too and consoles (especially due to new gen) are expensive!
Once I see hard results disproving my skepticism, the CronusMAX is banned at all my events as well.
As ideal as that would be, it’s not logistically feasible at major tournaments. It’s easy enough to do for 30-man tourneys, but when you’ve got hundreds of people for one game, you have to count on your other TOs to make big calls like that for you. Head TO is usually too busy going off and doing about a million other things and putting out a bunch of small fires all around the place.
For the most part, it’s a minor issue. Most dudes know what’s up with tourney rules, and if not, it should be fairly evident after a match or two if they’re abusing inputs.
As far as CronusMAX damaging USB ports, I’m pretty sure it’s most of an issue as lack of physical support under the thing. It looks like that device would place some weight on the USB-ports, plus there’s always the option that whoever installed it did it haphazardly, or that the guy using the converter pulled on it awkwardly.
I’m not certain if the info on Cronus’ website is older or newer than the latest posts in this thread. But currently it states a new feature called “Tournament Mode” which alleges that it should help qualify it for use in tournaments.
"CronusMAX PLUS Tournament Edition Firmware. Our Tournament Edition firmware may qualify your CronusMAX PLUS to be used at many official gaming tournaments. It disables all features that give users an unfair advantage, such as, Scripts, Macros and GamePacks. Cross-Over Controller Support and Button Remapping are the only features available with this Tournament and Competition ready firmware.
After enable/disable the Tournament Edition Firmware, a device firmware update is required to complete the operation."
http://controllermax.com/manual/
Still, the points being made about TO’s and staff have to also check the validity of the Cronus does seem to be labor intensive versus just banning it.
To be honest to you, I don’t think the tournament organizers are aware of this or they even care. And for most a firmware update is not good enough.
The problem is they got to inspect and check that every Cronus has a tournament mode or not, and there no easy indicator for them to check at a glance.
None of this LED light status or LED display showing its okay, they need to know the moment you walk in it it’s unpowered state.
They do realize they could plug the device into a console and check, but most tournaments do not have the time nor resources to waste with this.
So it becomes not just that the cronus is a cheat device, but it becomes a matter of logistics and feasibility that most tournaments have a blanket ban on such devices.
echoing @underwing @eltrouble
Honestly though, at a live Tournament with a dozen dudes sitting around watching everyone play their pool, it would be quite obvious if some had a 20 hit combo macro running while they aren’t pushing any buttons, or the button presses don’t line up to the action on screen.
cheaters get caught, even Lance Armstrong!
Any arcade stick that is brought to the tournament could conceivably have a modded pcb with an sd card full of macros at the ready. I mean it is a tournament full of electronics enthusiasts! setting up a macro is the least interesting thing they can do!
heck, some dude here modified his Tekken 5 HRAP to have an entire COMPUTER RUNNING UNDER THE HOOD with video outs, Bluetooth, etc… and still function as a normal arcade stick.
The point is: you can’t police, you have to firefight. Assume everyone is playing honestly until proven otherwise. This is 'Murica!
So with this in mind… I don’t really buy the “Tournament Organizers can’t check them all” argument.
I’m stoked to be able to use my favorite PS4 stick on my Xbox One, Xbox 360, and PS3 with little quibbles. The CronusMax is a great product for anyone who can’t spring for hundreds of dollars of new investment (I mean seriously MadCatz starting at $200!?) or doesn’t have the technical expertise to padhack.
IMHO it is a disservice to the community to rule out an affordable device which can keep the community vibrant and growing into this next console generation.
I hope new versions of this product, or new tests, or new understanding will help bring this idea out of the shadows!
And many tournaments that actually grounds for automatic disqualification.
Every tournament I ever attended held a policy that any controller can be allowed or disallowed at the TOs discretion, with the TO’s judgement is final.
I been to a tournament that in writing that you have to sign that the TO can disqualify your stick Mid-match if he or she decides to. To be fair the Tournament does have their own house controllers.
“Hmm, you got video out on your stick, nope sorry find another stick.”
Or you assume everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Declare the tournament is not public event, this is a private function and require membership to participate.
Try running a tournament, its easier to be a hard case jerk than to loose face when it comes to light someone with a illegal macro or exploit “won” a match and the scandal that follows.
You have a limited amount of time to check everything, so you look for stuff out of the usual and ask about it.
Also the TO isn’t just there doing stick checks, he makes sure the whole show comes together, renting the venue, bring in monitors and consoles, taking charge for the rest of their staff, officiating matches, and being the public face of the tournament.
No, no, it is not a disservice. The real disservice is to not to ensure each and every match is fair. Everyone in the FGC, every single person knows the high cost of entry in this hobby and scene.
$200 for a stick is nothing. I seen people walk in a tournament with $500 to $700 B15, Giant Sword and Foe hammer custom sticks, others walk in with modified Sega HSS -0130 or a Hrap VLX. Hell I seen a guy show up at a tournament with a 2 player X-arcade Tank stick. I think honestly too many people are acting like spoiled brats with 8th gen consoles. 7th gen lasted for too long, 5 years and you have to buy all new games and controllers were the norm prior to the PS3 and Xbox 360, I am not going to mention about backwards compatibility. New console generation, New controllers, it been that way since the Nintendo World Championship 1990. Where the [Nintendo World Championship 1990]( Nintendo World Championship 1990) game cart first appeared and offered as prizes.
What the first thing people do when they get a new stick, they customize it, they drop easily $50 just on buttons and a ball top.
Unlikely. The damage has been done. No TO will risk their equipment (the Cronus is known to break USB ports) and more importantly their reputation because some poor kid can’t pony up the cash or learn how to solder.
I hear ya… and those are good points… but if it is to be policed, and everyone is guilty, then every stick needs to be checked at the beginning and that should be part of the TO duties. Though I wouldn’t wish that kind of hell on them. Policing instantly become impossible, just think about what happens crossing the border from mexico into America! and they still don’t catch everyone! If one gets through, then that isn’t the TO losing face, that is the CULPRIT getting caught. it happens in the NFL, MBA, and even Cycling! No tournament organizer of any level can alleviate this concern. its just part of the territory!
I don’t quite agree with the idea of “its an expensive hobby, people be warned” because it was my understanding the Evo tournaments originally preferred the PS3 versions of SFIV and MVC3 since most of the community had PS2 sticks and equipment which could be more easily, cheaply, and properly converted to PS3. And I thought that was really cool thing to do; allow people to come forward into the next gen of consoles with their trusty sidekick. At the time, being new to the community I thought it really GRAND that this community could be so awesome that way.
To be sure, Maybe PS3 was also picked because the profiles weren’t getting in the way of stick switching, but watching the new tournaments with ps4 I see the same kind of stick and profile connection that 360 used which was so annoying a few years back… so that couldn’t really have been the whole reason.
if this was truly an issue, then any form of ONLINE tournament is immediately suspect and potentially being abused. and yet, they exist and are becoming more prominent. I think one actually qualified you to compete for a CAR?!
And if there are two versions of a game, the newest or most advanced console version instance isn’t always chosen, so that isn’t a good argument either to use the latest sticks/consoles. (see GuiltyGearXRD)
I do love going to tournaments to see everyone’s amazing creations that they have poured blood, sweat and tears into. I’m just saying we shouldn’t force someone who chose a XBOX One for Mortal Kombat because Xbox has a better ONLINE game play history than Playstation, or because all of his/her friends use Xbone, that he/she has to go and make, or buy or mod his stick to be used a handful of times a year at a tournament. (personally, I do do this, I’m just speaking up for the ‘little guy’ and friends of mine who are discouraged to go to ECT or EVO because of this)
I understand the broken usb port IDEA is bad and I do feel bad for those guys that just wanted to give the community a fun time but got a busted console for their trouble…
but honestly inserting and removing usb connections all weekend long during a tournament has got to be hell on any equipment. I know it sucks for tournament organizers but it sounds as if the Cronus guys would help out, and would actually want to know about it so they could close any gaps in their product. And with such a bright group of individuals in the FGC, solutions for that potential problem are already being bandied about!
gooooo team FGC!!!
To go off of your bizarre analogy showing up at an event with a Cronus adapter would be the equivalent of showing up to a football game with a case full of steroids. You’re announcing via what you have in your possession that you have the ability to cheat at any time.
I disagree on fighting games being an expensive hobby. Magic: the Gathering is an expensive hobby. 0-2 $60 games/year and one $150-200 stick is not that much of an investment considering that that’s enough to keep one going for years. As far as your understanding on Evo and console selection I’m pretty sure you’re wrong. Pretty sure PS3 being the initial choice for usage was a combination of Sony sponsorship (see also: why USFIV is going to be on PS4 rather than the proven or at least standard 360 version) and the fact that early model X-Box 360s had an insanely high failure rate. Also if the community had been queried about it I’m pretty sure that no one would have voluntarily played MvC3 on PS3 as that version of the game is shit.
On the one hand you’ve just explained why I don’t bother watching online events as it doesn’t even take cheating to impact the results as good old fashioned lag will do that job just fine. I would also say that if someone cheated in an online event that qualified them for an offline even chances are very good that they’re going to get exposed offline.
Anime games are called poverty games for a reason. Also most of the times it is chosen. PS4 is, I believe, the standard for DoA5: Last Round though I’m not sure which between PS4 and Xbone will be standard for MKX despite the fact that the PS3 and 360 versions of that game come out next month.
On the one hand what you’re saying here doesn’t make much sense to me. MKX has, from what I’ve heard, pretty suspect online regardless of what platform you’re playing it on. Should we wait until that’s fixed to include it in tournaments?
If the Cronus people wanted to help they would release a version of the product that doesn’t have the capabilities for macros or turbo, is immediately visually distinctive from their existing products and has some sort of security hologram (or something similar) that would let you know if the device has been tampered with. It also wouldn’t hurt if they redesigned the casing entirely to redistribute the weight a bit better as that’s been theorized as the main reason for USB port damage. Until that’s the case I don’t see any issue with a blanket ban on the product.
The PS3 was picked as the console of choice for many tournaments mainly because of Sony sponsorship.
If Sony provided you with money to run your tournament and a whole stock of new consoles you would be obligated to honor your benefactor.
Or another tournament running Xbox 360 because that whats donated to them.
Yep. One out of 3 consoles out of the box had the RROD when the Xbox 360 first launched.
Yes MS keep redesigning and improving newer versions of the console, but for many the decision was already made.
Reliability and Durability was a deciding factor in what consoles ran at tournaments the beginning of 7th gen.
Hell I once ran a Tournament once on my personal SNES because I knew I am not going to have issues.
For 8th Gen (I will not say next gen any more as the next gen is here) it would partially be decided by which hardware is more conclusive to a local tournament environment, sponsorship and exclusives.
Other than the new Killer Instinct I don’t see a reason to run tournaments on Xbox One anytime soon. Its really the only thing Xbox One has going for it at the moment. There also more stick options for the PS4.
Although its too early to tell, things could change by next year. Street Fighter V being a PS4 exclusive (c’mon PC don’t count in the FGC) will have a huge impact.
Expensive is honestly a relative term. What expensive to lets say me is not expensive to my friend who a skilled surgeon and owns like 20+ arcade machines.
Whats affordable to me is too expensive to someone in college who last 20 meals are all ramen noodles.
I don’t feel a $150 to $200 investment that good for at least 5 years is unreasonable.
Yes it is. Want to keep your kids of drugs, teach them Magic and they would have no money for drugs.
thanks for your insights. sorry if my analogies took a wrong turn. its just that cheating is always possible. (even after the judges check the game balls and send them out to the field.)
I guess what is being pointed to about which system is used and why is money. an unfortunate but practical reality. i bet tournaments are uber expensive to run!
I suspect that with this gen of consoles and future ones that have controller authentication procedures, any kind of external converter options will go away from the Tournament scene since any converter that could do the job would have to be “intelligent” and potentially have macro capabilities.
interesting discussion and food for thought.
the FGC was in love with PS3 the first few years but then its faulty online and buggy games led people to the 360 for SSFIV and UMVC3. will be interesting to see how things shape up for future tournaments. I assume Tekken 7 will be on both systems as is MK… maybe the xbone will become the go-to system for one of those… with converters doomed, we may all need to pony up some cash to stay in the tourney scene!
At least this year I only need to bring my ps4 stick for SFIV and MK to EVO! see you there team! in the meantime, my cronusmax will let me have fun using my VLX for all my Mahval, MK, and SFIV needs!
Rebel 1 fight!