c.LK - c.LP, c.HP xxTAT+HK requires a difficult link. It doesn’t make BnB status due to the difficulty - I guess.
I think BnB is something “easy to do” but does decent damage.
The reason we use c.LK over c.LP is the trade off for 10dmg for a more advantageous gain of HITTING-LOW for a first hit. Ken’s c.LK has a “chain” property, added with a low start-up, makes it extremely easy and quick to use.
3f start-up, hits low and is chainable. Best light normal there is.
thanks for the quick and thorough reply i didnt know c.lp didnt hit low. as for the c.hp tatsu then i can kinda understand now why since it isnt exactly a cake link. but if thats the case then if i can nail that link consistently then theres no reason why i shouldnt use it correct?
ok,y didnt any1 tell me u could cancel outa kens tatsu? any good uses for this, besides nt getn punished?
Not really 
it would’ve been cool if you could cancel out that slow spinning roundhouse like Sagat can with his TU. Has anyone found a reliable way to use that move? As a max range poke–it still can get beat out easily cuz its so slow.
Two beginner questions:
Is it possible to do: hado fadc ultra?
Do f.mk and cr.mk link or combo?
I can’t check myself right now.
yes, but I fail to see the point, it won’t be a combo? your Ultra can be blocked if you FB-FADC-Ultra?
yes, F.mk can link into a c.mk if the f.mk is a counter hit. Other than day no.
anyone know if there’s a thread that has ps3 ID’s with the characters each person plays? i wanna get in some good experience against good players who use different characters. ken mirrors are fun, but i gotta move on to playing others too.
Don’t worry cynistar, I’m gonna have C.Viper up to par soon, I’m gonna need the player matches!
^^ thats good to hear, but don’t give up ken completely. i’m still looking for a PSN ken to whoop me so i can learn from them and improve my game.
but to keep this thread on track, im gonna work on a few ken mixups and tidbits that i thought up and see how those can be put into play. i’ll post up my conclusions later this week.
Admittedly, I’m working on Viper too… I’ll NEVER give up Ken, but I’m starting to find it hard to keep the damage flowing just from Ken’s dangerous (to others and himself) mix-up game. I know I need to improve that, but I think C. Viper’s rushdown is so good that she can just almost constantly be attacking/ pressuring, and I really think that is what I want to do with Ken… but can’t.
I love Ken, but I’m feeling more and more like he is a partially formed character, maybe by the next SF4 iteration he will be complete.
i felt that also after seeing no ken in the evo stream, i second guessed myself and thought i might switch over to akuma because of his mixups and high damage potential.
but right now i’m trying to re-dedicate myself to improving ken’s overall game and mixup opportunities. this game is still relatively new so im sure there are still setups and options that we are not utilizing to their potential.
Definitely agree with you there. I’m sure there are a ton of things that we still have yet to see.
But it was interesting to see the characters that were in top 8. Akuma, Ryu, Balrog, Rufus. I don’t think Sagat was as successful because he doesn’t have much in the way of mix-up or rush down options. He is just solid, but if you avoid playing on his terms he isn’t as threatening. Personally though, I think Ryu should be the S-tier character, just because he does everything so well.
Ryu, Rog, and Rufus all have good ultra setups, Akuma makes up for that with heavily damaging combos and insane offense and mix-up possibilities.
Do you guys think the EVO top 8 is just idiomatic of US play though? I mean, in Japan, Mago’s Sagat is on top right? Maybe this is due to the fact that they play differently?
i see your from cali, i know the norcal regional matchmaking section has threads for psn and 360 tags. i would be surprised if socal didn’t have the same.
luckily the connection from socal to norcal is pretty solid
Well, it was funny too, because Capcom announced right before the tourny that Sagat (and Seth) were overpowered. I think a lot of people simply wanted to avoid hearing the phrase “You only won because you picked Sagat…”
I’ve become pretty frustrated with Ken’s lack of set-ups myself, and how goddamn hard you have to work to even land the Shoryu -> FADC -> Ultra, let alone a full Ultra. I mean, the amount of set-ups that OTHER players have is staggering. Even SAKURA has a solid FULL Ultra set-up. Ryu and Sagat’s set-ups yield the most damage in the game, Balrog’s is nice, but doesn’t punish quite as hard as others, Rufus deals great damage off a number of set-ups, Viper (her timing is a little tricky) has great set-ups (her Ultra dishes crazy damage), Abel’s got the c.fierce set-up, Gouken with the b. throw -> Ultra (or the goddamn Ex. Hadou in the corner, to Hadou, to Ultra)…I dunno, it’s just rough. Daigo has it right - I can’t count how many matches I’ve seen that he should have lost, only to have him pull the SRK -> FADC -> Ultra for the win. How many times do you seen Ken land the Ultra FTW?
But maybe I’m wrong. Maybe the key is somehow utilizing Ken’s piss-poor FA to land more crumples, and consequently, a full Ultra. Although risky, maybe an Ex. Hadouken combo to a lvl. 2 FA (like Chun and Sagat’s Hard Trial combos) is worth trying. Shit, I’ve even found mild success in hitting the Ultra on jump-ins (though how rare are those at high level of play.)
Spycarnegy and I were talking during the finals, one thing we talked about was Ken being in possession of EX meter. We were talking about how 3 bars is the perfect amount, and for Ken to be able to do anything dangerous, you almost HAVE to have 2-3 bars of EX meter. Maybe if Ken had some reset possibilities… ( I know he can do it off a CH DP - FADC) but that is costly and if you land that you might as well go for the guaranteed Ultra damage. But the other thing is that even with those bars, Ken isn’t able to do anything Ryu can’t.
I have definitely grown to appreciate the fact that Ken’s Tatsus/ EX Hado don’t knock down, providing a chance at a free mix-up. But he is just missing something… maybe faster recovery on Hadokens? I don’t know, I feel like one or two minor tweaks and he would be on a much better level, even without changing his Ultra possibilities. But yeah, that FA could be one of them. I like the fact that it gets you off the ground, but I don’t think that is a very fair trade off for it’s extremely poor speed.
I also kind of wish his far standing roundhouse was a little faster. It is great for surprise factor, but it is just so slow and dangerous to do.
Anyway, /wishful thinking
Oh wow, those are my EXACT thought about Ken. I wanna main him, but its so annoying that I’m winning a match, and another dude pulls an ultra SOOOOO eassy and win,while pulling an ultra with ken is hell. And even if you do it, it does so little damage (the second part of it) And ultra’s are a huge part of the game.
They should have added third strike ultra T_T the tatsumaki one, it goes forward at least lol.
But yea I agree with you man lol. I think fixing his ultra a little, that for example, after FADC you can do a FULL ultra, would put ken up in the A tier. As well as fixing his hadoken recovery, cause its kinda crap lol. That’s all he needs actually (Although it is a big thing)
Yea, I’ve been messing with the ex. SRK COUNTER HIT -> FADC -> Ultra. Apparently, if you hit the SRK on a COUNTER HIT, you can land the full Ultra as they come back down, but again, what are the goddamn odds of pulling that off in-game?
And Monkey, I know what you mean about the St. Roundhouse. I used that a ton in SFIITHDR, but if you wiff or get blocked, the frame disadvantage is staggering. Wide open for punishing.
I think that Ken is a decent character but for sure he is lacking something. The problem is, if Capcom were to give him many of these things I feel like maybe it will be too much. Besides that, they have to be extremely careful with the way the game is balanced.
Also, we should be looking for things that complement Ken’s play style. He doesn’t need a better recovery on his FB as it can match Ryu’s already and IMO he is not Sagat and doesn’t need a crazy FB. I think things that will help him along would be a srk that trades less and a focus with better range or for his lk tatsu to be slightly longer and startup/recover faster.
I think the best would be for the lk tatsu being improved and I feel like this would improve his game immensely. If it could pass over fireballs without going as far as the mk, startup faster so that you can do it easily on reaction to fbs and faster recovery so that you can mix up some more without getting jabbed all the time and so that he wouldn’t get smacked by a second fb that would be great. I feel like this alone would bring a whole new level to his game. It would be the equivalent to a roll against many characters.
The question is, is Capcom content with the way Ken is and do they not want to make him better or do they see that there is room for improvement? We’ll have to wait for the next title to know as I’m sure there won’t be any balance changes for this one.
alright guys… come on, let’s stop complaining about the game and improve our play.
has anyone else been having alot of success with making your opponent whiff shoryu’s on wake up? i figured out that people are more willing to do wake up shoryu when they have at least 2 ex. bars. because they think they can FADC for safety. me being the nice guy i am, am more than willing to let them do it. so i stand just outside the shoryu range, on wake up, make them whiff and punish them severely for it.
-this works especially well on cammy too since alot of her combos and even ultra combo derives from landing that cannon spike.