how would you know why OGs hate new games when you arent one
you should just be quiet and not act like you know everything
what do I have to fucking manage in shitty fighter 4 that I already didn’t for years in other games? NOTHING. game is ass thats why I dont play it. its slow, boring, looks shitty, etc. thats the simple answer to your “riddle”.
maybe “OGs” dont give a flying fuck about shit coated street fighter we have these days.there is nothing appealing about garbage like sf4 and sfxtekken.
new people playing new games because thats all they know.if the table turned and they had to try playing older games, it would be comedy gold. because they’d lose 100% of the time in pre-sf4 capcom fighting games like marvel2/3s/cvs2/st/alpha2-3.
Its not like 1 reason.
Talk to the OG’s in your scene, try to learn from them.
Or just call them out on the Internet here assuming they don’t respond?
On only your small understandings and maybe misconceptions of the older games, in which they have quite a bit more experience… tread carefully.
Spoiler
Who told you this?!
[media=youtube]03iF-m_VCCY[/media]!
I just got poked and zoned and air controlled etc. to death tonight. while using a not very big damage Super character. Vs a not very big damage super character
But maybe we we’re playing Darkstalkers x Jojo’s from our character looks. :cybot:
That’s true, I think I just worded a lot of stuff wrong.
Concerning 3s, I’ve been playing it since a couple of months before OE came out on GGPO, and continue to play it on GGPO to this day with a friend of mine who won Console Combat for 3s once. I can confidently say 3s has a large emphasis on hit confirming into super as a large portion of the damage.
SF3 has setups into that damage, mindgames, more…
Not new game style, “(Only) look for the (1) opening for damage.”
You can choose to not take the full damage to tick, flip over mixups, better position, dash under while they are stuck awaiting inevitable high / low / commandgrab, ambiguity crossup or fakecrossup etc.
emphasis on different strategies/skills shifts from game to game, and that can stir up some complaints. i don’t mean to offend but pinning it on meters seem shallow. I can’t recall the last time I’ve heard someone express the gripe that x game has too many meters to keep track of.
Just gonna ask how much experience you have with any of those games.
I always thought people didn’t like newer games because THEY WERE ASS!
Bitch, please…
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQayWNEZbjO6cu40VkdXBB90-TQ5nNAIXjzf63SppwhPCw4_4yHPfy0Qo-H
I know UltraDavid hates extra mechanics with passion but not all of us think like him. It’s not about the number of rules but how well they are done.
I also like how you list “ex meter” and “super meter” as 2 separate meters.
I like how he feels entitled to having serious responses to this debacle of a thread.
Implying you can’t do any of that in SFIV?
compared to other genres, fighters have not deviated that much from the classic formula. You still have a 2D plane and 2 or more characters fighting. Each game has its own strategy.
Compare the original Doom to Rage. Or Sensible World of Soccer to Fifa 2012. Night and day.I can play the older game with ease, but the new games are totally different, though we have a FPS and a sports title.
Playing SF2 and then SF4 has a much easier migration.
add also other distractions:
mobile phone, skype, net connection problems, DRM, console updates etc
you just played the game in the arcades or at home without such worries. that is what true offline experience means.
If you press the pause button to any other genre, no big deal, you can go on.
But pressing the pause button or being distracted in a fighter, totally destroys your tempo.you need 100 % concentration.
also reading threads like this adds more to the distraction!
Out of all the people I would want to design a new fighting game, OGs are probably the last. No offense intended, it’s just the way it is. The longer you’ve been exposed to something, the more you’re influenced from what has already been and the further removed you are from what is generally considered ‘good design’. It’s human nature.
I think serious players–or at least serious appreciators–like to know that their skills are being genuinely tested by the game itself and that their chances of winning don’t come down to some capricious element in the game design. I also think that no matter how many additional management systems are overlaid onto the fundamental gameplay, it’s the implementation of those mechanics that really matters. A game like CvS2 has a lot of stuff to manage, but if you don’t have your basic fundamentals in place, it will eat you alive. It doesn’t hold your hand and the fact that those mechanics are present doesn’t make it any more forgiving to the player’s sloppiness or ignorance.
I also think that serious players (or serious appreciators) prefer a game that rewards them for making return visits. It’s not just about having a different experience by playing against different people, but about having a different experience simply by picking up the game. The depth of the game itself will present you with something new to learn, some unique challenge to overcome. I get that from ST and CvS2 for sure, and from A2 to a certain extent. I don’t really get that from 3S or SF4.
(But if you do, then good for you. Just because I don’t really like those games doesn’t mean I’m trying to shit on people who do.)
Jesus, look at me. I posted outside of GD. This message has been brought to you by too much whiskey and not enough sleep.
Comment is OG approved.
It is indeed human nature to design based on what you know. Hell, I’m in education, and I’ll say that I think all the professors I work with that have been teaching for 20+ years need to either retire or take some education classes. They design their courses off of the old models that don’t work in today’s society. It goes the same for any field. Very few people can continue an extremely creative career after their generation is over. Steve Jobs was an example of this (And I’m no Apple fanboy). Bill Gates is obviously not an example of this.
We had resources to manage, but they just weren’t “official”
First, I’m going to nitpick at you and say, “then”.
Next, Alpha had more than just “super meter”. If you get into Alpha 3, you have different ISMs which you had to keep track of, and depending on what level you’re playing at, you should be keeping track of your opponent as well. If I’m using an A-ISM Sakura and fighting a V-ISM Ryu, I have to keep track of that, and I have to keep track of which side of the screen he’s on to know if I’m at risk for getting hit with an infinite. You could also do more things with your meter, other than just supers. AFAIK, there’s no “Alpha counter” type system that you had to keep track of, which is why if you were using Dhalsim in Alpha 2, you had to be super careful about your pokes. SF4, you poke freely. Alpha 3 also has guard meters that can be broken, so another thing you have to manage.
SF4, EX meter and super meter aren’t any different than in 3S, so they’re the same thing. Second about your SF4 argument, grey health isn’t something you really have to “keep track of” while you’re playing. You do an FADC through a fireball, you have your reasons, the health comes back in a moment, you’re done. It’s all one chunk, and not individual pieces you’re concerned about.
Third Strike requires you to manage super, health, meter for ex attacks, and quick rolling for different setups. Not to mention, glitchy things like charge partitions, sggk, kara EVERYTHING, unblockables and other pieces that make the game more complex.
As for Marvel 3, don’t even start comparing, because the amount of bullshit that goes into playing MvC2 is beyond anything Xfact will ever provide. Guard breaks, unblockables, fast fly, unfly mode, FSD. Super, Health, and red health are in games as far back as XSF, so don’t give me that bullshit that those are too complex for OG’s. That makes no fucking sense at all. When new school players learn to deal with guard breaks and stop bitching about how fast the game is, I’ll consider MvC3 players to having valid arguments, but from what I’ve seen, there’s not many hardass MvC3 players that can fuck with the MvC2 scene.
Let’s not even get into games like Guilty Gear. You want to talk about mechanics? Burst, Tension that fills up when you rush down, you lose it when you run away, and all the different cancels and guards you can use, health (derr), and the block meter.
I dont remember a “y” ism in arcade a3… There was a x and v as the standard isms then l and m ism as nonstandard banned at the time isms…
Anywho, the reasons why ogs stopped playing the new games is simple and complex at the same time.
In simple terms they started to win less. They were winning less cause the games were evolving… Or a better word might be that the games were changing. It has nothing to do with ogs not being able to evolve as well, and everything to do with more random mechanics being added in that inherently made it so that no one could win all the time even against inferior opposition. Supers were the first of those mechanics, but not the only ones. Supers making fireballs weaker is another nail in the og coffin as were softening throws. Softening throws made gaining an advantageos position via proximity not as strong as it had been, which in turn made the precise spacing of og streetfighter less important.
So the old dogs simply won less and by that time had gotten older, had their fill, life was coming and the game was changing… Perfectly reasonable time to do something else besides play fighting games.
This doesnt mean that og games were in any way “better” they were just different and required a certain mentality. A mentality that many og players didnt want to eschew in favor of the new school mentality. And there is nothing wrong with that. Nor is there anything wrong with loving newschool games with there throw breaks, easy ways around fireballs, supers, overheads… Balanced rosters etc.
-dime
Oops, meant V. It’s been a while since I played the game.
There are various reasons why OGs hate newer games, from the game mechanics they don’t like to just plain old “This game is not the game I like the best so I don’t like it.” The “resource management” in FGs is nowhere near that of an RTS like StarCraft, don’t even try to compare them.
What I don’t like is how the OP refers to OGs as if they’re some sort of unified group. Not all OGs are the same, some receive newer games more positively than others, others don’t mind the new games but prefer and still play the older ones, and still others hate the new games with a passion. It’s a diverse group, I don’t see why some people act like they’re all the same.
Disclaimer: I am no OG, nor do I claim to be one.