Whoa! Calm down dude. I used to play Gouken too. Oni and Gouken suffer from the same problem. Capcom made these “master” characters who, probably for story sake, don’t “need” to rely on the same easy crap as the regular shotos. They’re both gimped. What I’d like to see is both of them buffed up to be tourney viable. You’re wrong about some of the Oni slash stuff, BTW. But I’ll let that go because we’re both in the same boat and shouldn’t be fighting amongst ourselves.
I was going to use Yun’s full screen EX lunge as an example, which also combos into Ultra, is super fast, safe as shit on block, and hard to punish on reaction. I used Gouken’s instead just to highlight how crap the move is.
I’ll throw my hat in on Cody, since I play him a good deal.
-slightly better walkspeed (Maybe Fei’s?)
-don’t drop knife if he focuses
-overhead neutral on hit (Please no Chun super after hit…)
I think Cody’s an extremely interesting character and I feel that giving him a long reaching untechable knockdown AND having startup invulnerability with EX Ruffian would be silly, considering he beats fireballs for free as it is.
Feurte doesn’t have any 7-3s advantage matchups, with the possible exception of vs.Guile. The character just forces you to guess alot. You need to know what to do on wakeup. Most people don’t know how to play against Feurte, and a good Feurte that makes good reads (even if you know how to play against him) can make anyone look free. It might seem like a 7-3, but most trouble against Feurte is just not knowing what to do to get out of his built-in mixup game. He is built more on reads and guesses than safe play due to most of his moves being punishable if you guess right. This makes Feurte risky, and risk plays a minimal role in 7-3s for the advantaged side.
I tried playing him when AE first dropped. I thought he looked interesting and seemed different then just a regular shoto…the problem is that he looks good on paper but UD is right…his normals are slow and blow.
This would be great for cody, I agree but what about the characters that are FB dependent? They are basically sidelined in AE as it is…doesn’t this just alienate them even more?
I think one of the great things about Super was that both styles were viable. If everyone and their dog as 10 ways to get around FBs then what is the point of those charcaters in the first place? Just something to consider…how changes to one character effect others and the game as a whole.
Sorry! I’m just reading shit like people complaining about target combo 4 whiffing on crouching shotos when Gouken’s hitconfirm into a palm or tatsu won’t work on ANYONE if you neutral jump or cross up, talking about how it NEEDS to be fixed cause it whiffs on shotos and blanka and leaves them -3. Shit I can’t even do EX Palm into tatsu depending on whatever it is and whether or not I used cr.hp or st.hp. When I whiff my combo I’m - 102.
I’m on THREE soapboxes and what!?
Some of the stuff people are complaining about… Everyone who can do a combo has known about the god damn reel animation making combos drop. Everyone but the developers apparently!
I had no idea a 3f DP with ass tons of invincibility is “bad defense” because you can’t FADC it. Lots of characters have worse. Some are just as “bad.” Also, Oni does decent damage if he’s two to three steps away without meter. If Oni has meter and/or he’s next to you? He does great damage. Just because you don’t have access to that awesome damage at any given time doesn’t mean he does low damage. Oh, Electric Fireball takes forever? That’s cool. It also stops anyone from trying to initiate a fireball war with you.
Oni is very likely a mid-tier character who just isn’t represented. I figure he could be much more viable if he had a meter gain adjustment and a slight speed increase on some of his normals.
I never thought I’d see the day when people were calling a 3 frame DP a “bad” wakeup, lol. What do you want, unpunishable fully invincible Captain Corridors? Jesus.
Oni doesnt build meter? Full screen whiff some lk slams and tell me he doesnt build meter. Or how about TC1 into LK slash which btw is only -2 (ie: something you dont do against grapplers). He keeps gief out cleanly with some of his “slower” normals like st.fp and st.rh (my god the second hit of this thing). How are you going to say his throw range is terrible? He has like 4 kara throws. F.fp being the best and f.mk not being too far behind. B.strong has the longest hit confirm window ive ever seen. Not to mention a great horizontal hitbox. B.strong hit confirm into low forward fireball fadc b.strong x lk slash. or after fireball fadc > low strong, cr.fp lk slash. Oni brings on stun FAST. Having a kara-throw range (almost? the same?) the size of vega’s and kens makes it even easier to get CH’s off b.strong.
He certainly needs fixes. No arguing that. But saying hes bad or awful or even bottom tier is flat out wrong.
I must of skimmed over someone elses post about the a-tier mention but the way you talk about both of them makes it seem like they should and could be running train on most characters in the same league as Cody or Adon or even Guy.
Yeah I mean I like his kara throws, kara throws aren’t his problem. But kara throws don’t really work in the same way as the throw/counterhit setup game because karathrows tend to come from outside counterhit setup range, and even when they come from closer in, their extra few frames of startup means that crouch teching them is usually done too late to run into counterhit setups. Again, no debate that he can put the hurt on if he gets the chance. I just think that the way his moves came out means that he can’t put the hurt on unless he’s right up next to you at a range where, frankly… I think Dan (and plenty of other characters) do better.
Btw 3 frame invincible dp is really nice, but it’s a huge commitment. Guess wrong and you’re boned, even with its relatively good recovery. Give me almost any reversal fadc instead any day. Yep, this is the only game where you’d complain about that, but in a game with so many free escapes, well, it IS complaint-worthy.
Again, I don’t think he’s the worst, and the worst in this game still isn’t a bad character. But for sure I think he’s low-mid at best.
There’s plenty of people who are calling Oni’s DP a bad wakeup because you can’t FADC it.
EDIT: I suppose I’m a bit biased because I’ve never mained anyone with a high speed invincible reversal in this game. I’d kill for a 3 frame DP sometimes, FADCable or not.
I have no problems with the removal of TKCS, but please give Cammy back her old Spiral Arrow. Most of the time I can’t FADC out of it and dropping combos is death
To be honest I would take Cammy’s Cannon Spike over Oni’s SRK. Even though you can safe jump Cammy, being able to FADC out of a bad spike (or into more damage with a good one) is more valuable IMO because even 3 framers have to worry about empty jump set ups.
Not everyone of them needs to happen but some do like Chun’s u1 issue.
Chun-li
-Fix U1 on a Juggled Rose or Akuma so they do not fall out.
-I forgot the other instances of which characters fall out but maybe fix it back to Super form.
(I’ve seen some other characters fall out of some of the hits miss.)
***Rose ***
-Turn it into a 5 framed ultra
-Increase damage on orbs by about 25-50
-cr.mp to be like super
More damage on hp soul spiral and ex soul spiral (25-50)
-Fix hitbox on HP reflect to make it more useful as an AA.
-Make u1 completely invicible to projectiles or make the start up faster by 1-2 frames.
Cammy
-Either lower the height restriction or restore TKCS
Guy
-Allow his u1 to connect mid-screen instead of pushing the opponent away
-slightly faster walk speed
***Cody ***
-A slightly faster walk speed (To about as fast as dan’s walkspeed.)
-Better back dash
Honda
-bring SSFIV damage back or give lp headbutt its invicibility back
Blanka
-Hp and ex blanka ball to cause knock down
Oni
-The ability to FADC Shoryukens on block
Juri
-Better throw range
-Make lk pinwheel 0 or -1 on block
-Fix hit boxes on pinwheel so it has less of a chance to get stuffed by other normals
Yun
Ex lunge to be 0 or -1 on block
An incompleted target combo to be unsafe on block
