Yeah reversal sign makes no sense inthis game or sf4. I think in sf4, the reversal notation will pop up within the first 13 frames. Which is idiotic, cuz now you have no idea which frame you performed the reversal on. That notation should only show up on a perfect 1st frame reversal, or else, the notation is worthless, which it is indeed worthless in this and sf4
I did some tests with some of Rog’s normals sometime back :
(normal / frame advantage on block / boost chain frame advantage on block)
cs. hk: +3 / -6 (9 extra recovery frames)
cr. mp: +2 / -4 (6 extra recovery frames)
cr. mk: +4 / -2 (6 extra recovery frames
fs. mk: +2 / -3 (5 extra reecovery frames; not sure though. Looking at the frame tables I haven’t been able to find any 4 frame reversal moves that can hit far enough to punish fs. mk)
(frame advantage on block taken from frame data tables. boost chain frame advantage was calculated by testing against various reversals.
Regarding the reversal sign, perhaps it’s just not hitting on the 1st active frame? For example, Ryu’s SRK (3 frames) punishes Rog’s lp dash straight (-4 frames), but if spaced correctly it doesn’t hit immediately and can be blocked.
About the guide, I’m pretty sure that the guide was written for an earlier version of the game.
ex tiger uppercut (4 frames) hits pretty far away.
mh then I might need to confirm each chain by itself. tho, might be a tekken <> sf thing.
I’ve found my old post where I first mentioned that reversal thing:
and that were against moves that left the opponent close [tho, ex flash kick has a huge reach anyway], but didn’t investigated that further. (btw ex flash kick has 5 frames start up, not 6 like the guide says^^).
It wouldn’t surprise me, I helped a little on the ssf4 guide, and we used old builds of the game and had to do frame data ourselves. Pain in the butt.
Yeah, to be fair, Guile has better options for opening people up in SFxT than in past SF games. But I think he basically gets his one shot (low short into boost chain or overhead) and then if you block it he has to give up. He’s not really a rushdown machine, ready to break your guard open with multiple mixups through pressure (unless he has you in the corner and has charge).
Thing with Raven is that it’s not so much the mixup, it’s that some characters have (literally?) no answer for jab pressure without meter. Raven can wear down large portions of the clock just walking and jabbing, and at any time he can go low or overhead with a variety of moves (risky, but it’s there), or go in and throw (which is not nearly as hard as it sounds when people have resigned to blocking jabs for a while). Also, maybe it’s just me, but I find alpha countering jabs to be really hard… if you stagger the jabs, you get raw launcher and counterhit (into huge combo with Raven). And even if you hit it, you might put Raven full screen where he’s totally fine being.
I just don’t think it’s a good look for the game. IMO all characters who rely on jab pressure should be adjusted a bit. Cammy as well, but I don’t know Cammy well enough to suggest other changes for her to balance it out. I think Raven can survive pretty well with fewer + frames on his jab though.
I dont think s.jabs look good for the game either, which is why I wish they used individual unique hitboxes instead
So maybe that’s not that uncommon then…
Still seems weird that they would be tinkering with the game that close to release. I’ve read that’s one of the big issues with Japanese game development, they wait till the very end to stick everything together and see what they have. With Western devs the game is finished and they do nothing but iron out bugs for like, 6 months before the game goes on sale.
It might have something to do with bug fixes. If someone finds an infinite during the beta phase for instance, the fix will entail changes to frame data, hitboxes, or the move properties, which might cause some other perceived imbalance or bug.
If it was just that, I would agree. But it goes a bit deeper, alot of the pictures and move properties don’t line up. And I don’t just mean in a typo sort of way either.
For the record, I’m not faulting Brady Games here. The guide is very well put together and quite good.
Well, we had an updated version brought to us half way through the guide(ssf4). Pretty frustrating
i thought so too, but it’s not positive at max height. at least when i test it (unless im testing it wrong).
a completely reasonable and well thought out post. I commend you for this.
Granted I’m a Juri player in SFxT, and 2 of my teams have her, but did they really have to give her more negative frames on her MK Senpusha? -7 wasn’t enough?
I have to state I don’t understand why they gave Shikusen less push block. If you hit too high with any of them you’re wide open to any counter.
The problem is raw Wesker teleports arr mad punishable. They are usually covered with assists.
You would have to compare it to X Factor to compare raw teleports.
I checked the blockstun and hitstun ((HDPVR + 60fps) of Dive kick from Rufus, it has 10 frames of blockstun and 21 frames of hitstun
+5 on block in the brady games means they calculate if Rufus hit the lowest point and land just after.
1 frame in air + 4 frames of recovery on the ground = 5 frames “lost” so Rufus is at +5 on block.
If the frames after the nerf was calculated in the same way, wouldn’t that mean the dive kick has only 1 frame of blockstun now (+5 to -4)? At the lowest point you would have 1 frame in the air and 4 frames ground recovery which means Rufus is at -4. I think that’s right…
Good notice ! 1 frame of blockstun is just impossible
I don’t think Capcom thinking like Bradygame when they talk about dive kick frame advantage. Talking about the lowest point doesn’t represent the usual use of the move in my opinion, specially at close range when you try to bait a crouch tech or a throw
The big problem with dive kick is the ambiguous crossup. Perhaps the new frame advantage is when you try something like that
nerf top tier, buff bottom tier, i myself, would really like capcom removing steves footstomp, give him decent tekken strings, and maybe giving him and the rest of the tekken cast a reason to be scary
Just lets you know they are open to random knee jerk nerfs that leave you scratching your head. Casuals were crying about Juri early, thats really the only reason I can come up with