Most characters, if you neutral jump the FB, you land on the shuriken, and Raven can continue he combo, most of the time he even gets the combo if you hit him on the way down before landing on the FB.
Why can’t he teleport if you have a FB? He can throw his FB to cancel yours and teleport for free again.
I’m just telling you what my success has been with competent ravens. I match his ground fireball, he won’t teleport. And I tend to not stay full screen vs him, which makes the strat more potent, which is a big reason why, if he does air fb, im walking forward. You can even watch recent raven footage between good players, look at wnf, I didn’t see him go for teleport cancel at all.
Maybe my comp is ass. But the more I play, the less potent that strat has become, to me
I hope you’re right. I always assumed frame data was based on a good dive kick because in AE it was down as +7 on block and I’m pretty sure that’s not on their head. Even perfoming a dive kick too close reduced your advantage because there is a delay at the start of active frames before Rufus begins to descend, therefore close dive kicks had to be almost ground level height.
Frame data on jumpins is usually calculated assuming the Ariel attack is performed at the last possible second.
With Dive kicks it’s a little tougher because where the dive kick hits matters alot. We also can’t be sure that the programmers at Capcom use the same metric that we do.
Akuma’s only had 10 frames of recovery and people punished it all the time. The difference is the overall speed.
Posted in other thread as well… New level 3 auto-block gem. 1/6 Bar. Not much more to say…
I am aware. You are correct, you have much more time to respond to Akumas. If Raven’t port makes you wiff something, it’s already to late to punish.
Akuma:
Duration - 53/61
Recovery - 12/11
Raven:
Duration - 38
Recovery - 8
Wesker:
Duration - L: 31 M:39 (vulnerable startup)
Recovery - L:20 M:25
Comparing it to marvel is a bad idea since the time scales are different.
Though yes compared to SF teleports it is really good.
Yeah, I realize it’s not fair, but I’m trying to make the point that it’s way extreme.
Combining the words “Rufus Divekick” and “can’t be a total dumbass” Doesn’t compute in this game.
You might very well be right about Rufus’ divekick, but to quote FallenAngel from the Balance patch thread:
"it literally says “after guarding the fastest falcon kick, frame advantage becomes approximately -4"”
I read “fastest falcon kick” as “a divekick activated as fast as possible after jumping”. Why do you say “-4 off a BAD divekick”? Where did you get that from?
I was always under the impression that proper frame data is based on the earliest point it can hit a grounded opponent, when it comes to blocked attack that is. And that. Just like when a normal says its -3 on block, that’s based off when you connect on the first active frame. Don’t see why it would be any different for a dive kick. But then again, that means it would vary based off the height of the character. Hmm… just shows that frame data is not all to important in sf games, since there’s so many variables. Either way, Rufus divekick is still gonna be strong, imo. But I guess we will wait and see how it pans out. I hope it sucks cuz divekicks don’t belong in games like this, imo
Raven teleport is good, but the point is that its still punishable
Let’s take Dhalsim’s frame data on his drills from sfxt: In the guide they are described as +12 on hit and +4 on block. If you do the drills the worst way possible, I am sure they are something like -16 on block and -8 on hit. I guess you could compare drills to divekicks.
Perhaps. I’ll reserve judgement. But my guess is that it will still be strong(divekick). I just remember when everyone went nuts with yun divekick nerf just by looking at the frame data, saying he was ruined, yet he’s still plenty powerful, cuz of that very move
And I agree with you, and would think -4 as the best outcome on block for a divekick is a little excessive, and an unlikely harsh nerf. I was just arguing for the sake of my own curiosity as I didn’t know where you had gotten the “-4 off a BAD divekick” from, so I guess we will have to wait for a better formulation on the frame adjustment from Capcom, or the patch itself.
<3
Done.
By the way, Rufus dive kick in the upcoming patch will be +4 on block (down from +5 or +6), plus they made it harder to do that whole “hit in the front, land in the back” thing. The translation is dumb, they’re saying “if you block Rufus’ dive kick, you are -4”. They’re talking about the blocker’s frame advantage, not Rufus’s.
Air fireball is whatever to me, you can crouch it
As for the s.jabs. I think that’s s byproduct from people bitching over the years that they had to learn specific combos and strats with their character vs each character. They get rid of that by making universal hiboxes, and this is the result, imo
The point is that the top tiers don’t really need a lot of crazy changes. Nerf a few small things about Raven and, coupled with buffing those lower and/or changes in the game engine, he’s fine. Rufus is getting the slight dive kick nerf he needs… that’s probably the only change he should get (maybe a slight damage reduction but whatevs). Don’t know enough about Kazuya to suggest changes… maybe st.HP doesn’t push back as far? I’d keep EWGF the way it is. I think Ryu should stay almost the same, maybe remove sweep cancel but I dunno. I don’t think HK donkey kick is a huge problem.
I think the real question people should be asking is what changes do they want for the perceived low tier in this game? What meaningful changes should be given to Yoshi and Paul and whoever else people think suck?
System changes are needed also in my opinion. If they go that route, any character adjustments would need to be made in context of said system changes.