That’s still considerably better than they’ve been of late.
2009-10 29 53 0.354
2008-09 32 50 0.39
2007-08 23 59 0.28
2006-07 33 49 0.402
2005-06 23 59 0.28
2004-05 33 49 0.402
2003-04 39 43 0.476
2002-03 37 45 0.451
2001-02 30 52 0.366
2000-01 48 34 0.585 Last Winning Season
Way better 
It is sad to hear that the Knicks did not exist in the last decade 
How does a major market team, outside of the Clippers let that happen to their team
When the hell has there ever been a consensus that Kobe was “number 1” at anything. Since 1997, I’ve defended the guy against bitter arguments that he’s complete garbage (which made me sound like more of a Kobe fan than I really am). I agree with FOBio. He doesn’t deserve to get ‘knocked down a notch,’ until sports fans can all agree that he accomplished something fair and square.
yeah friggin sweet.
Well most hardcore sports fan has acknowledge Kobe as top 10, or at least top 15 at worst.
We all know he is great, but to the casual fans he is just good. He has no one to blame but himself for how casual fans sees him. He can thanked the rape case + bitching for a trade.
Obviously I am generalizing from personal experience maybe the casual fans see him as great now too I don’t know. What I do know is that when I was watching the Christmas game with my family, everyone who wasn’t really into basketball preferred LeBron over him.
With the men they had a problem with his bitching, and obviously the women had a problem with the rape case…
Clearly both are things of the past, but they were the 1st thing my family thought when they think Kobe.
Kind of hard to give him all the credit he deserves when the 1st thing that pop into someone’s head about him isn’t even about basketball.
P.S Say it with me Geo.
IT’S MILLER TIME!
Of all the hardcore fans I’ve talked to in person and online, at least they can no longer deny that Kobe’s top 100 :lol: People hate him for tons of reasons, but he has nobody to blame but himself for Eagle Colorado.
That’s sports in general man.
Same thing is going to happen when we start talking about Brett Favre later on.
Be lucky we even get this argument. Baseball doesn’t even have a chance to debate some of their greats, because steroids completely fucked everything up. When talking about baseball it’s like you have to two separate groups. Steroids era, and non steroids era, because you have no clue who the fuck didn’t use steroids.
At least with basketball and football we can debate stars from different eras. We just have to take in consideration different rules, and style of play for each era. Oh and how we keep track of stats, cause no way in hell John Stockton should have that many assist. Everyone knows his assist number is complete utter bullshit, yes even you Invincible Swordsman!
But the point is we can shuffle through all of that and debate them. Kobe has things working for him. It’s not hard to find area where we can give and take away credit from Kobe. Saying we don’t give Kobe credit is nonsense. Everyone says he is the best “closer” but advanced stats has proven LeBron is better in the clutch. Yet everyone still gives Kobe that title, and quite frankly LeBron fans aren’t even arguing it even though stats is on our side.
So to say Kobe doesn’t get credit is just plain ludicrous!
/end rant.
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Oh and Clips/Warriors, what a game. Griffin drained a clutch three LOL.
ESPN’s got your back on the ‘best closer’ argument. I don’t agree that there’s a consensus (yeah, everyone has their arguments, but how many of them stick when you talk about Phil Jackson, Tim Duncan etc?) on any one of Kobe’s accomplishments… but I’m not saying there deserves to be either. But you’re right that other athletes have it as bad if not worse.
Damn they do now?
Fuck! I liked being an OUTLAW! (Shout outs to the only two real Outlaws in this thread. You guys made Roadhouse proud!)
Fucking ESPN!
Anyways enough with my derailing of topics.
If I had to pick anyone to start a franchise with it will probably be a SG. Or try to get LeBron to play SG. 
This era just favors SG and PG more. Kind of try and build that old Bulls model. Scoring SG that can play good to decent defense. A SF that has really good defense, and then surround them with good role players. A few guys that can hit the threes, and a few big that is willing to rebound.
It’s a shame what has happened to the C position. At least the PF position has involved into more jump shooting oriented. The C is just a walking injury list now.
Best bet is get a great SG, good SF, decent PG, and two serviceable bigs. Preferably a PF that can rebound and hit that 18 footer, and a C that just plays good solid D.
I would say get a great PG, but no great PG has won a ring in this era yet.
Paul, Williams, Nash, Rose, Westbrook, Kidd all ring less. Only Rondo has a ring out of the elite PG, and he didn’t even get it when he was elite.
east still being the east where 500. basketball earns you the 6th seed, lolknicks
Are you saying that NBA players aren’t on steroids or just that it doesn’t affect the game as much as it does in baseball? Because there’s no way that Lebron and Howard aren’t on some serious shit, among others. Shaq looks like he’s been taking elephant steroids for 30 years with his 25 cubic foot head.
I won’t be surprised if NBA players took some kind of PEDs that aren’t necessarily legal… but not because of Lebron, on account of the fact that he was freakishly muscular in high school. He’s not like Barry Bonds and other baseball players who were toothpicks early in their careers, and it’s not like we’re seeing a whole generation of bulky players.
Either way, the argument about PEDs ruining the purity of sport hasn’t infected the NBA.
Yeah, some of them are probably just muscular, but watch a game from even as recent as 1995 or so and you can see a huge difference. I don’t know about Lebron either, he was muscular in high school but he was probably scouted since 4th or 5th grade. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that he was taking something starting in middle or high school. Anyway, I agree that it doesn’t matter a huge amount in basketball, except for the “dribble penetrate, travel, smash into people, get two free throws” play lol. Some extra padding helps there.
That is a huge part of basketball,the heat won a championship with this sweet move.
I doubt many bball players have done steroids though. The world is different than it was in 95, as far as diets,trainers,and lifting go.
That’s some bullshit because there’s always been muscular freaks throughout NBA history. 1995? Okay, that’s the era of David Robinson, Shawn Kemp, Karl Malone. I’m just thinking of players who looked like their muscles had muscles, not just players who were physically imposing (like Barkley, or Mourning, or a bunch of others). So no, I don’t see a huge difference between players then and now.
And country-ass Akron, OH getting access to PEDs… reaching. It’s more likely that the journey from school bball to the pros is Darwinist, and the most skilled and athletic players in the country catch the attention of scouts, agents and GMs. Again, if a player takes PEDs I won’t be surprised, but just crying ‘roids!’ at a popular player with a better physique than you have is silly.
Shaq’s size and strength changed the priorities and expectations of the center position… that’s the biggest difference between the NBA now and before the 90s. Everyone wants an aggressive, ‘break the basket and be a block machine’ type of C, instead of being the ‘center’ of the offense and defense.
EDIT: :d: right
center of offense and defense, right?
Whatever, I don’t want to make a big deal out of it, call them 'roids or PEDs or whatever but it’s pretty naive to think that at least a good amount of NBA players aren’t on something. But if it’s silly to see Dwight Howard looking like an Image comic character from 1994 and thinking he has a little help, well then call me silly.
Ummm my argument was for this season and coming up seasons
Kobe in my book is top 3 all time EVER! Their stats are not padded like those of Wilt
In fact here is my list…
- Jordan
- Kobe
- Duncan!!! <- FLAME SHIELD UP!!!
I mean, you’re pointing at the D12s and Lebrons as evidence, instead of the majority of the league. The C position needs more Dwights, so why aren’t there more freak centers?
Size isn’t always the product of PEDs-- there are super-lean Olympic athletes who test positive for drugs. That’s the kind of stuff that I think the league is on (if they’re on anything to begin with).