Enjoy!!!
Lol great vid
Thanks! I plan on making more vids soon… I get ppl out here in San Diego interested in this game all of the time, so I figured this could help get others into the game if they saw how fun it could be regardless of netcode.
should I jump back on this? problem is, will I be able to find people to fight against?
I think that the biggest problem is the netcode, there could be people willing to play, but the netcode is so terrible that it makes it almost impossible to play in many cases 
The netcode in this game is extra terrible. I don’t think you could say enough bad things about it. Is there an updated tier list to this game? Leveled up Watson still tops?
I understand the netcode is bad and all, but that’s still no excuse not to play the game. At the very least, bring the game to your local scene. If you don’t have a scene, build one. This game is very similar to Street Fighter with other elements added, but its still an easy game to get into.
What areas do you guys live in???
The tier list made in 09 is still very relevant to this day. Ashley is still top, with Cedric right behind him… Here’s the list actually:
S: Ashley
A: Cedric, Coyori
B: Watson, Face
C: Donvalve, Marco, Death Bringer, Odile
D: Freed, Urs
F: Olivia
I personally think that lvl3 Watson is at least an A-, especially considering his mixup to combo potential he has. I also believe Watson should have 3 separate spots on the tier list, one for each level.
Olivia is really that low with her ability to force unblockables and high damage on top of her improved mixup game? Have you checked out any recent footage from Japan? She’s been an increasingly populaur character and I don’t think she’s bottom anymore.
Odile being above any character is p silly. She’s got good damage off some stuff and that’s it. Most of her shit is gimmicky at best and her normals that differ from Olivia’s are mostly meh besides 5B. Freed at least has a decent ground game and can run some good shit with heat up. Urs has solid basics if nothing else (Including being one of the lucky few characters with a legitimate reversal). Olivia is kinda obviously better lol, and I remember her being placed higher usually. The normals that differ from Odile are better (And she still has 5D whoop whoop), her command grab is good if you aren’t up against Watson and her heat up is bullshit stupid for pressure and mixups.
Watson is good, but he suffers in neutral against a lot of characters which is pretty rough given how low his health is so being in the upper half of the list makes sense, and it’s usually where I see him put. After arcade bullshit was removed I’ve usually seen Cedric put above Ashley but otherwise that list seems fine.
From my personal experience with the game, i wouldn’t put Olivia at F, hell, i wouldn’t put anyone on D even, the game is balanced enough where every character has a descent chance of winning even on their bad matchups.
should make a list of active players that are playing online. I have it on both systems PS3 and X360, so any system is fine.
What’s so good about Ashley? His mix ups seemed ok and his damage was kinda meh. Although damage in this game, as a whole, is kinda meh all around.
I personally think Olivia isn’t low tier. She has a tons of tools at her disposal, like the Chun Li overhead (3D). She can also punish really well like Ashley imo, and lets not forget her infamous “bird links” that can be done in Heat Mode. Olivia does have some difficult combos, but she can also be effective. That combo vid I made clearly shows that her air 214B/D cancel is good for at the very least extending combos and corner carry. Using 623A/C on the other hand, well that’s still a lame move that I would only use if that’s the only way to get damage off of something like her 2D in the corner— but even then, I’d rather force a reset by using either 5C, or her 5B > 6D chain.
Odile&Dokurod has great mixup IF they manage to connect— otherwise you’re looking at unsafe options. Her 214B/D is only good if it connects, because then you can go into the air drill attack, but you can’t go into drill if the first move is blocked. Your only real option would be to use j.D, since you can go into drill from that. O&D’s damage output is also lower than most I think outside of Heat Mode, and even if you use meter outside of Heat Mode, you’re still looking at something under 900ish dmg.
O&D is better than Freed mainly because of the fact that her rushdown can start with a projectile, and her trailing behind it, possibly giving her safer options (this is something I need to test). That 2B > 5C chain works wonders as a poking and hit confirm tool, even 5C by itself is good, especially since you can cancel into things from that move. Freed is very one dimensional in his approach to things outside of Heat Mode, so that’s something else to think about.
Jump and 2C all day… Punish with 2D~236A/C… Command grab and style with charged specials… Alternate 214B/D command grab works wonders when mixing up… Ashley’s ridiculously fast and does high damage with simple combos… Also, Ashely has tons of normals that can’t be gatchi’d with once or they have to be gatchi’d standing, even though Ashley’s crouching (5C, 2C, etc)… He also has great pokes, 2D being the first to come to mind…
Grandia II OST? <3
Ashley has solid low/overhead/command throw mixup and really good damage to back it up along with decent overall fundamentals. He’s just overall good and there’s no real holes or weaknesses with how he works, nor is he overly fragile like a lot of other characters that are otherwise strong (Olivia, Coyori, Marco, Watson).
@Jinxhand: Yeah Freed is linear, dash straight is ass against a large number of the cast and he’s very reliant on heat up, but used properly each bar gives him essentially multiple highly save mixups in a row into combo and knockdown if one hits, into more of the same if he has more meter. He has very strong situational momentum that can pretty easily win him matches. Odile has to rely on low target combos and regular throw (That she doesn’t even get any decent oki off of) and threat of point blank overhead when she has super for another option. The startup and recovery for her projectile is deceptively bad, and it isn’t anywhere near as useful at mid range or closer as Marco’s or Cedric’s.
If divekicks had stronger advantage (Not necessarily enough for free combo on hit, just enough for her to keep pressure up if they contact the opponent period), her crossup specials actually worked worth a damn and/or her projectile was noticeably better in some way then she’d be more workable, but as it stands she really doesn’t offer anything more than other characters. She’s a poor jack of all trades. Don’t get me wrong, she’s still usable, but it’s pretty hard to justify picking her when pretty much the entire rest of the cast has stronger basics and/or more threatening game plans.
Odile&Dokurod’s mixup and true potential do come from the use of her main target combo, the one I mentioned awhile back… 2B > 5C… This string can also turn into 5A > 2B > 5C, or 2A > 2B > 5C. One thing that does kill her is option select, mainly because it stops her momentum when trying to apply throwing or string pressure to her opponent.
The drill kicks are safe at best, but it puts her in a neutral position with her opponent, so there’s no real advantage. I would never use the projectile as a shoto would or as Guile would… Think of her projectile like Ky’s 236D where it allows Ky to rush in and apply pressure because there’s something else allowing the character to attack from another angle. Odile&Dokurod’s fireball also works as a shield, as she is definitely fragile. You would probably want to get a better hold on using Gatchi with her, more so in the air than the ground as I feel she benefits from it the most when doing an aerial gatchi. Ground gatchi might be good for her too, because there’s 214A/C, and in the corner you can combo that with her air super.
I’ve got a bunch of stuff I came across and posted up on Dustloop, I might as well post it up here sometime this week since there’s possibly some here who aren’t on Dustloop often if at all. I will try to clean up the post, as it’s really a ton of info, including unblockable setups for characters, how it was tested, other tidbits, etc…
Ok, here’s some of that info I posted on Dustloop… I’ll start with Cedric:
[details=Spoiler]I’ve been grinding the mess out of combos with several characters lately, and I came across something with Cedric that I’m not sure people know… Anyway, here we go:
Of course we might (or might not) know that Cedric in heat mode can throw 2 projectiles at the same time from one [4]6P. Cedric of course is also a ranged character; however, if you happen to trap your opponent in the corner and are in heat mode, know that if you are close enough and connect [4]6A from a 2B, you can link another 2B afterwards. Please note that this link also works with the C version of [4]6P (all it does is add more dmg).
What does this mean for Cedric??? If you’re charging a dropkick (like most Cedric players should be anyway), and you land this link, you can follow up with the dropkick and start doing some good combo damage. You’re easily looking at doing about 1174-1281 dmg. So far I came across 3 combo possibilities, the only determining factor for the first 2 combos is how long you have been charging D. The last combo I will explain later.
IMPORTANT: Please keep in mind all of these combos are in “Heat Mode”!!!
Here’s a combo that can be done if the first dropkick after the link was level 1.
2B~[4]6A, 2B~]D[ ~[D], ]D[ ~[D], 2C, ]D[ -----> 1171-1174 dmg
(Note: Changing [4]6A to [4]6C changes the dmg to 1255)
Here’s that combo that can be done if the first dropkick after the link was level 2. This makes the opponent bounce off the wall and over Cedric.
2B~[4]6A, 2B~]D[ ~[D], ]D[ ~[D], 66 2C, ]D[ ~[D], 66 2C ----> 1281-1283 dmg
I don’t immediately know how much is added when using [4]6C vice [4]6A. This combo does take you from the corner to about mid-screen, and you can still have a charge readily available… I’m currently testing out some things to see what can connect after that last 2C. Currently, the dropkick will not connect at all.
There’s the 3rd combo: 2B~[4]6A, 2B~]D[ ~[D], ]D[ ~[D]
Now, the thing with this combo is that this will only happen if you do combo #2, and if you do the 2nd dropkick too early. This will make the opponent fly back towards the corner. If you have another charge for a dropkick, you can use it. Other than that, I’m not sure what else can connect with this combo, and I don’t know the dmg output as of yet… I’ll update this accordingly…
UPDATE: Another link I found is this: 2B~[4]6A, 2C
[4]6C will work with this link. In fact, it seems to make 2C connect alot easier than when using [4]6A. I wanna say there’s a 1-2f window to get this to connect, but I’m not sure. I don’t see the benefit for using this other than a quick reset. Besides, using 2C in combos kinda decrease the chances of anything else being added to it.
I’ll update this post with more info pertaining Cedric. If any of this has already been discovered or known, I apologize… I didn’t see any of this in the plethora of match videos I’ve seen since '07(?), nor is it on the dragoninstall site or curryallergy blog…
UPDATE
New combo:
(Heat) 2B~236236P, 66 66 ]D[ ~[D], 2C, ]D[ ----> 1412-1699 dmg depending on which move you started with.
If the starting move was:
5A/2A - 1412
5A, 2B - 1530
5B - 1567
2B - 1625
5C - 1793
3G~Heat, 66 66 5A, 5B, 5C, 236236C, 66 66 ]D[ ~[D], 2C, ]D[ ----> 1349 dmg
If you don’t have a dropkick charge you can substitute the dropkick with [4]6C. The first projectile will hit and end the combo, causing a reset, and the other projectile will be right there forcing the opponent to block. I don’t remember how much damage it does though…
Just came across another strange thing. When in the corner in heat mode, if you connect with 2C, you can combo with 5A~]D[, and it will connect even though the combo reader only says 2 hits.
(Heat) 2C, 5A~]D[, 2C ----> 511 dmg
(Heat) 2C, 5A~]D[~[D], ]D[ ~[D], ----> 695 dmg
(Heat) 2C, 5A~]D[~[D], ]D[ ~[D], 66 2C ----> 822 dmg
In Heat mode, you can also combo with Throw, 5C~]D[ anywhere in the screen, and follow through accordingly. In the corner, you can either use 5C, or simply substitute it with 5B, since it hits low, allowing you to get a slightly longer charge on your dropkick possibly doing more dmg despite the damage sacrifice with 5B. Throw into 5A~]D[ works, too, but you have to walk slightly into the opponent and then connect with 5A. Honestly, you’re more than likely going to be more successful landing the dropkick by itself, but you’ll sacrifice some damage by doing that alone. You can also use 5B after throw, but it sets up that weird “reset”, and since the opponent can’t block in the air, you can use dropkick and it will combo, even though the combo counter will only say 2 hits.
This anomaly can help extend Cedric corner combo potential. For instance, you can do this:
2B > [4]6C > 2C > 5B~]D[~[D] > ]D[ ----> 952 dmg
Throw > 5C~]D[ ~[D] > ]D[ ----> 669 dmg
I believe there’s more that can be done with the 2nd combo. Note, that while you can connect the dropkick from 5C at the initial position, it’s easier if you slightly walk forward with Cedric then tap 5C. Doing this makes 5C hit the opponent closer to the ground, but not close enough that he/she can tech, and it makes the dropkick connect more consistently.
Most people would simply do dropkick after the throw anyway, plus you have to time the 5C just right, so what’s the point of doing 5C to dropkick after the throw? Think of it this way: imagine if you didn’t have a dropkick charge available, and you decided to charge D right as you threw the opponent, the 5C will add just enough time to charge the dropkick from lvl 1 (212 dmg) to lvl 2 (295 dmg). This also adds more damage to your combo from 408 dmg to 502 dmg. Also note that the 2nd combo can be done from anywhere on the screen, so although Cedric has better options if he were near the corner, there’s always some form of max damage he can get even if the dropkick wasn’t readily available.
----Some poking notes regarding 2B----
Also, keep in mind that you don’t want to throw out 2B with Cedric by itself in an attempt to hit confirm. It’s -5 on block, which means most characters can do their 5A/2A/2B into a special/super, or if they have the meter, expect a super punish. At the right range, Cedric can’t punish himself in a mirror match. Urs might have trouble as well. Deathbringer can’t punish Cedric’s 2B though.
You don’t necessarily have to, but you can follow up 2B with his projectiles at least. It helps create that distance, so Cedric can get back to zoning. You can do things like 5B~[4]6A > 5C~[4]6A/C to create a sizable gap between you and the opponent.
2B seems to be “safe” for now… I tried punishing it from all ranges with the fastest moves (4f), and Cedric was able to block everything…
Meterless Corner Combo Stuff
If for whatever reason you are in the corner with Cedric and connect 5C, you can cancel that into [4]6A, and then link with 2B~]D[!!! With that alone, you’re looking at 676 dmg if the dropkick was lvl 1, 698 dmg for lvl 2, and 790 dmg for lvl 3. If the 1st dropkick wall bounces, you can end the combo with another dropkick for 891 dmg. If the 1st dropkick doesn’t wall bounce, just finish with his [2]8B for 858 dmg. 5C is relatively safe, being +3 on block, but I’d still recommend that you use 5C~[4]6A to consistently keep the opponent in block stun…
This is indeed a lot of info, but eventually I’ll try to consolidate it to something that’s less “all-over-the-place”…
I stand corrected: Cedric’s 2B seems to be safe that it can’t be punished… I’ve tried using 4f supers, 5f lights, etc… Nothing seems to work apparently… I’ll keep testing eventually…
[/details]
Some Donvalve stuff
Spoiler
DonValve ------------------------------
DonValve’s 6B to super throw can be stopped by either jumping right after the attack (leaving you open for his air grab super), or jabbing out very quickly… DonValve can always go into Heat mode to open up other options for himself, mainly having super armor so he can defend himself against the incoming attack, and then use 6C easy throw…
Don’t go spamming that air throw super, as it can get gatchi’d!!! I had it happen to me a few weeks ago at Saltmines…
Face stuff
Spoiler
Face ------------------------------
Face has an unblockable setup in the corner in Heat Mode. From 623B, you can 5A, causing what would be a reset; however, if you quickly input 236236A, you can get a free 6 hit combo, stealing more damage than normal. Here’s an example combo explaining the difference in damage. Remember, this is in Heat Mode only:
Combo without unblockable:
(corner)- close 5C~623B > 236236A ----> 1111 dmg
Combo with unblockable:
(corner)- close 5C~623B > 5A > 236236A ----> (727+580-601) 1307-1328 dmg
Face builds meter quite quickly using his rekkas, 5B~5D, his throw, and especially his 6C overhead, so getting enough meter to use this unblockable shouldn’t be too hard to do.
EDIT (05/30/2013)
In Heat Mode, when Face uses his special shots, the smoke clearly tells you how many shots are left. After the last bullet is shot, if Face attempts to shoot again, the smoke then says “スカ” (suka), which I believe is “shit” in Japanese.
When using the C version of Wild Comeback (214C), Face can actually increase the distance he dashes back if he cancels this from a normal or a string. The distance isn’t affected by the pushback his normals would create on hit or on block. So far, here are the moves that increase the distance traveled backwards:
Please note: the first move in strings can be used by themselves to create the gap as well…
c.5C
2A, 2C
2A, 2B
5B, 5D
5D
2C
So far, c.5C and (2A, 2C) create the largest gap. So how does this benefit Face, if at all??? Wild Comeback is already -1 on block, making this move pretty safe (DonValve is the only character that can currently punish this move). I feel somehow there can be frame traps involved with this, as the safe move becomes even more safe with the gap in place, possibly allowing Face to do almost whatever he wants without the opponent truly expecting it. When the opponent does expect a possible trap, Face can simply cancel Wild Comeback by doing 214[C] and from there he can throw, go for a high/low mixup, or whatever.
More Info As mentioned before, DonValve is the only character currently that can punish Face’s C version of Wild Comeback on block. With these strings going into C Wild Comeback, this prevents DonValve from punishing Face at all on block. The only way DonValve could punish at this point is by blocking the string or normal, and then attempting to gatchi 214C, then immediately going into his 720 super. This opens up an opportunity for Face to bait a gatchi attempt by using 214[C], and from there do whatever he wanted. There is a risk in baiting a gatchi attempt, but the reward is pretty good if Face does guess right.
From what I’ve found, Raging Revolver (236236B/D) can’t be fully gatchi’d. Eventually, the last hit or two actually connect. It is possible that they all can be gatchi’d, but one has to be pretty fast to parry all of the shots…
Deathbringer
Spoiler
Deathbringer ------------------------------
Heat Mode combo into Final Strike
6G~Heat Mode > j.A > j.D > land > j.D > land > 5A > 5D > Final Strike ----> 1547 dmg
You can time 2 j.A > j.Ds instead of doing just one to add more damage. DB has several other ways to combo into Final Strike. I’ll post some more in the future.
EDIT
Apparently, the strongest followup from 5B > 5D is 623A, which does 1127 dmg. Using 623C does 764 dmg, and doesn’t twice like the A version. The best followup for most hits seems to be 623A. If you’re quick enough, from 5C, 2C, 5B, and 2B, you can use 623C.
There is a way to get an unblockable setup with 6D after hitting with the charged version of 41236D, but the right spacing is required. I’m still testing this out for now.
Another High Gatchi~Heat Mode combo into Final Strike:
6G~Heat > j.A > j.D > land > j.C > land > 2C > Final Strike ----> 1560 dmg
Looking at the frames, if you do poke with something like 5B or 2B, go into 41236B to keep you generally safe. If you’re good on hit confirming, then you should be able to go for 623C if 5B/2B connects, and 41236B if they don’t connect.
Whenever you knockdown, CHARGE(214B/D)!!! This is DB’s goto pretty much…
Omg, dash into super jump covers so much!!!
5B is the only normal that moves DB forward.
EDIT (05/30/2013)
High Gatchi Drive combo:
6G~Heat > 7A, D > land > 214B > c.5C > 2C > 5C~Final Strike ----> 1700ish dmg (I can’t remember exact #)
Charged UB setup with 63214C (No Heat Mode required!!!)
land 5B, 5D chain, and while opponent is in the air, step forward just a sliver, then connect with 2B~63214C. If the opponent isn’t paying attention, there’s free damage even if they’re blocking. The only real counter to this is gatchi…
DB’s j.C looks so deceptive that he can actually hit the move really really really low, and it still counts as an overhead. So if the opponent is going off of looks and tries to block low, he’ll still get hit. Nothing is guaranteed afterwards though except for maybe a mixup or two.
Urs stuff + extra info from another post
Spoiler
Urs ------------------------------
This dude is pretty strong imo… He can almost break 1000 dmg with 1D~623C (913 dmg on both NH and CH). That combo alone does 1018 dmg on G-counter. Anyway, Urs is able to take 2006 dmg from a successful Gatchi Drive. Here’s that specific combo (NOTE - In order to perform the combo completely, you have to “step” forward to connect certain moves, otherwise you’ll whiff):
6G~Heat > 9C > step > 2C~236A/C > step > 5A~236A/C > 214B > 236236B/D
This does about 1/2 life or more to the whole cast, except for Freed, Face, Deathbringer, and DonValve. I did have an issue with weird hitboxes in the corner with Cedric, and Deathbringer when I tried to connect with 236236B/D. Another anomaly was with Freed. Apparently he juggles really high, so landing this combo on him is somewhat harder, especially landing the super at the end. If you desire, just swap 236236B/D with 236236A/C. It does slightly less damage, but it’s better than whiffing altogether. If you decide to not spend more meter, you can always finish with the simple 623A/C.
Urs does have some unblockable setups with his 236B/D. You can hit with 5A, 2A > 5B, or even 5C if you time it right, and you can cancel into either his fireball, or another 236B/D, but the timing is kinda strict. If the unblockable used was the fireball, nothing is guaranteed afterward.Nevertheless, its still something worth using if you’re about to run out of Heat Mode and you connected with a 236B/D. If you decide to use another 236B/D instead, you can extend the combo of your choosing.
Just for shits and giggles, Urs can 236236B/D and combo with another one if meter is available.
[EDIT]
I’m in training mode right now with Urs. It’s apparent that his style is basic, but outside of his kara-cancel he does have a few things that require some practice. I’ve looked everywhere, and no one has yet to mention his c.5C > 2D link that does 553 on NH, and if canceled into his 236236A/C, he does 1230 dmg with only 1 meter, and can be done anywhere on the screen. I feel like Urs has frame traps for his shoulder tackle, but no one really uses his c.5C, which is really good-- almost as good as his f.5C despite the range.
I also was working out ways to maximize damage after his 236236B/D super connects. Urs can quickly go into Heat Mode and instantly do 623A/C right after. This also seems to work everywhere on the screen, but its easier in the corner obviously. My input was simply 623~A+C~A. I feel as if negative edge had something to do with it, so the input could end up being more like 623~[A]+C~]A[. I hope this makes some sense…
Marco
Spoiler
Marco ------------------------------
Marco, well he is the “Ken” of the game, just as Urs is the “Ryu”, but Marco only has the ShoryuReppa, and the speed factor that Ken has… He actually has way more mixups that lead to all kinds of extra damage. In fact, outside of Gatchi Drive and Heat combos, Marco barely does 1000+ damage and that’s with the help of Final Strike (236236B/D). Marco imo does better damage off of hit confirms into super outside of Heat Mode, since Heat Mode for Marco means flash in terms of combos instead of actual damage. If you do happen to go into Heat Mode, apply those mixups like a madman…
While Marco does benefit in the mixup department, he can combo with his dragon after a Gatchi Drive going into Heat mode. The thing with Marco is that he’s so small, and his moves don’t take him far enough to combo consistently. There are plenty of combos that don’t do much damage past 1000, but are pretty damn flashy, especially when comboing with Charsiu. Here are some combos that do work, but you’ll have to accurately position Marco just right to finish them:
6G~Heat > 236D > 66 > 6D > 623A~236236B/D ----> 1815 dmg
6G~Heat > 9C > land > 6D~236A/C > 2C > 66 > 623C ----> 915 dmg (This one is more flashy than damaging). You can add more damage by dashing in right and connecting with 236236A/C and/or canceling it into 236236B/D if in the corner. That in total does about 1506, which isn’t worth it tbh…\
One thing that kinda sucks about Marco in Heat Mode is that his specials get locked until you use a Charsiu-specific move (236A/C [fire], 236B/D [high/low dash]). Marco can’t even do his supers without using his pet first. So, if you do try to combo in Heat Mode, please keep this in mind.
One strange thing I just came across is with Marco vs Face. If you’re too close to Face, and you try to Gatchi Match his 5A, it will completely whiff. Marco has to be at least a character’s distance for the Gatchi Match/Drive to work. This isn’t too bad, because Face can’t cancel into anything from 5A, it can’t even self chaining.
Odile&Dokurod
Spoiler
Odile & Dokurod ------------------------------
Odile has some pretty good safe normals for the most part. I’m noticing that since her 5B and 2B are both low, and they chain into each other, going for a low/low mixup while “appearing” to go for a low/mid-high mixup can benefit her. 5C is a special mid, which really hurts her, since it doesn’t really give Odile other overhead options aside from 2A > 6B.
One thing I do see in all of this is that she can put the fear of lows into the opponent, which can give her an opportunity to go for a grab. Odile can recover from her lights to jump quickly and use her drill attacks (air 2B/2D). 9D into drill works, too sometimes.
Fireball isn’t as big as Ky’s 236D, but it how it works kinda reminds me of that. It get’s big in Heat Mode, and kinda reminds me of Quan Chi’s fireball in MK4.
Odile’s damage output is relatively smaller than the rest of the cast, even Watson. She definitely doesn’t to much damage with her combos either, even in the corner. To even get close to 1000 you have to use her 214B/D move and combo into that.
214B > air 2D > 2A > 2B > 5C~214C ----> 1330 dmg
If you’re in the corner, you can add a j.C for a grand total of 1470 dmg plus a hard knockdown.
Odile also doesn’t have much in terms of range. 5C so far seems to be the farthest normal next to 2D (one of her worse normals to use period).
4/17: So apparently Odile can hit confirm into her air super (j.236236B/D) from afar with her projectile. Both versions of the super do the same amount of damage, but the projectiles do not (A - 336 & B - 384). Connecting it all gives you 1421 dmg from full screen.
In the corner up close you can do simple block strings that will allow you to hit confirm with the projectile using 5C. Here’s an example:
2B > 5C~236A
- Assuming the first two hits are blocked, if the projectile connects, you have a chance at comboing with 5C~214C and follow up with whatever afterwards (super, 9C, 9D, etc). Her 5C is safe on block, so if you want to there is the option to go into another 5C~236A/C and continue the pressure. If the projectile is blocked, and if the opponent is tall enough (Face, Freed, DonValve, DB, etc) you can go for 9C, but not much is guaranteed afterwards. You’ll just be a bit closer to the opponent, although you obviously don’t want to be too close to DonValve.
After using a BnB combo like 2B > 5B > 2B > 5C~236C, Odile can connect her air super if timed right. The only catch is that the opponent has to be combo’d close enough that he/she ends up in the corner for the super to connect. I currently have not been able to make it connect midscreen, although I feel as if there is a way for it to connect. EDIT Odile can shorten the combo to 2B > 5C~214C, and then quickly get an air super in. That in total amounts to 1271 dmg.
9A crosses up, but even better, 9C crosses up!!! 9C is actually useful because you can connect 2B > 5C~214A/C at least. The downside to 9C crossups is that it only works on DonValve, Freed, and DB, but considering their damage output vs Odile’s, this makes things a bit easier for her in the damage dealing department.
Just a reminder, if you’re gonna learn Odile&Dokurod, start becoming friends with her 2B > 5C string.
Divertissement super (214214A/C) is only good as a punish and maybe if you connect with a short combo that can go into it like 2B > 5B > 2B~214214A/C. That combo does 945 dmg, which is way less than hitting with the super raw and getting the full 1195 dmg instead.
From any corner combo that leads into 214C, you can use 9D~2D for crazy resets. Odile lands faster when using the dive attack, so she’ll have even more time to do certain attacks, or simply bait the opponent’s attack/gatchi match.
Unblockable Findings + Vid links, etc
Spoiler
Yes you are right, every move is air unblockable, but only in Heat Mode. Outside of Heat Mode, no unblockable is guaranteed. I am in the process of testing whether or not some setups can be avoided by using a well-timed Gatchi, or if the recovery time doesn’t allow for a successful avoidance. If that’s the case, characters like Face, and Watson can do massive damage with meter.
EDIT: So there is a possibility for the opponent to Gatchi whatever the followup move that would be considered unblockable… The thing with that is some moves can come out faster than the opponent’s air recovery time.
Example:
Face vs anybody (I’m using Olivia right now). I always make sure the dummy is set to recover on knockdown, so I can determine what gives a hard/soft knockdown. In Heat Mode in the corner I’m using 623B > 5A as a setup for the “unblockable”. As soon as 623B connects, I switch the Enemy Defensive Settings to “Gatchi Match”. Face can still combo with 5A, so that can’t be gatchi’d. Here’s what I’m testing afterwards:
Remember, ALL of this testing is being done in Heat Mode
623B > 5A > 236236C
- This setup can actually combo!!! There are downsides to this though. The first one is that there’s a risk if you don’t do this fast enough, and the opponent can gatchi this in the air. Another downside is that the super, while it hits multiple times, only takes 1 gatchi match to nullify this super (think Guile’s Sonic Hurricane in CvS2). The A version of Face’s super will either whiff entirely, or be gatchi’d by the opponent.
623B > 5B~623B_236236A
- All of this works well. Using 5B instead of 5A allows Face to not only cancel straight into a special or super, but it does 45 dmg more than 5A. The only downside is that the hitbox is obviously lower because it actually hits low, so you have to tap 5B as soon as Face recovers from 623B. If you actually connect with this in the corner you can do something along the lines of 623B > 5B~623B > 236236A.
623B > cl.5C~214C
+This actually does NOT work. The opponent can recover in enough time to gatchi match.
These are just a few examples of what I call “True Unblockables vs False Unblockables”. The huge task at hand is trying to figure out which ones are “true” or “false”…
I’m still testing the whole unblockable theory. I believe what you say about the instant startup, but from what I’ve tested, there happens to be a slight period where the character is recovering and gatchi isn’t accessible to use for defending… I’ve been recording the actual setup and tried defending against it myself to be sure that the setup is legit… I’ll keep testing though…
You are right, whether or not they’re unblockables, they do allow for some sort of setup, especially if the opponent is good at attempting gatchi after recovering… I’ll continue to post my findings…
EDIT
Face is the character that I’m recording with. I’m simply going in Heat Mode, and doing the exact same combo and setup I used previously:
5C~623B > 5A > 236236A
My character is Marco. I allow Face to combo me with 5C~623B > 5A. I see myself starting to recover, but I am not allowed to use gatchi at all within a certain time frame. Face has just enough time to use 236236A and get free and full damage (642 dmg for super alone). There literally isn’t any real recovery time allowing for gatchi… If the super was done late, then one tap, and the whole thing is parried, which would allow Marco to retaliate accordingly. I’ll have to record some footage showcasing what can/can’t be done…
EDIT
Ok, so to help explain what is happening, I will try to add a specific picture or video to help explain what is going on.
Here is a successful “unblockable” with the aforementioned setup. Notice the timing between the 5A and the 236236A, and where Marco is in all of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHx5E3W70tw
Here is an unsuccessful “unblockable”, same setup, etc… The only thing changed is the slight 5A delay, but everything else is the same timing. If the 5A wasn’t delayed, but the 236236A was a hair off, Marco could still gatchi out of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5vBPNKKx9I
I literally sat here for hours just testing this simple easy setup and the timing required to gatchi out of it. Honestly, these potential unblockables might not even be used that often. However, when they are used, people will start to think hard about stepping up their defense, and yomi in order to gatchi on reaction properly.
I didn’t play this game a lot, but I can safely say that I liked this game better than anything else Arksys did. It’s an injustice that they dropped the series completely.
ARC SYSTEM WORKS, ASW, ArcSys not Aksys
2 different companies
I agree… I think it was mostly because it wasn’t a “Guilty Gear-esque” game as to why the game kind of became the bastard child of Arcsys… I know when they were working on the game, one of the issues was the combo system not being “GGXX” ennough, so when the Gatchi system was implemented, you could do all out crazy combos if you guessed right when you parried a move, provided you could Gatchi drive the move, because there are anti-Gatchi drive setups involving light attacks and some moves that hit multiple times.
I looked at the Leaderboards on xbl, and there’s still ppl playing the game online… I’m shocked!!!
Regardless, the game is still worth an investment in a local scene…
Apparently, Emiko Iwasaki (the mind behind the game) got a look at the vid and liked it… Hopefully things like this spark a Battle Fantasia 2 with more visual elements that attract the non-Japanese audience…
Since the game was ported to Nesica with the balance changes of the console version of the game (plus little visual changes) BF has got a new rise on how often is played, it is not the most popular game, but it certainly gaining more attention now which is good, perhaps if ASW decides to do another Arc Revo they will give it a chance this time in the games lineup.
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