Thanks. I’m not looking at them for pokes, it’s Trial pressure I’m interested in.
Like I said earlier, you want to make it look like this in training mode input (anime/numpad notation)
236HS
NOT
236S
H
236S
H
236
S
H
EDIT: The “buttons” won’t space themsselvers properly. Pretend they’re under the last input.
Just do very slight pauses inbetween the final direction, the LMH, and ths S.
Also my last hope for Wright in serious play (with current knoweldge) is gone for now. Crossover counter Press the witness is not very invincible at all, nor does it cause otgable knockdown.
On a curious note, if anyone has the imported Vita version of the game, seeing Wright’s hitboxes would be godlike…kinda not obvious (look at the deceptive trial mode crouching H…)
Isn’t it invincible up until the first hit in a Crossover Counter?
Isn’t it instant/fast in a cross-over counter? Confused. That could be a really good punish option vs characters with safe, guard heavy pressure (Dante/Vergil maybe).
Look man, I set the dummy (PW in this case no less) to mash H. Not even a fast move. I did a guard cancel into press the witness (not break), and he basically got hit out of it or traded every time.
Ah, I thought you were referring to Break the Witness.
are any of the evidence pieces other than the knife and cellphone that good?
since we have to depend more on courtroom mode instead of making a mad dash for turnabout mode
it seems ideal that we try and figure out situations to use the certain pieces of evidence
what i noticed is when wright kills a character he usually get good evidence, its happen alot to me, someone should prove me wrong, ive been trying it online
not sure if it works if u switch in to him to gather after another one of your team mates kills one, also i like to use frank west on the team for his hyper otg which gives u alot of time to look for evidence also with dante which his hyper takes forever to end so u get like five free searches , so just do basic magic series then launch down the team hyper assist , i also noticed standing l. is not that bad,
I honestly wouldn’t trust any data you get about evidence online. When playing online, especially player matches, I always seem to get the exact same set of data no matter when I decide to search.
i dont think it matters whether u play online or not, makes sense though you get rewarded with good evidence for killing a character
If you look at the frame data, the one thing that sticks out the most is the active frames. All around 10 frames which is 2x-3x the average active frames of the rest of the cast. I don’t know if that will help too much in the long run, but from what it seems like, PW is all about meaty pressure. All his trial moves are + frames on block. Thus the constant pressure of positive on block strings could eventually lead to the opponent getting opened up. Just have to find good assists to complement that type of play, since the one thing that kills all PW’s moves and strings is push block. I think long pinning assists to let you get back in and continue the block pressure are ideal.
Also, along with that constant pressure, high low mixups are pretty simple with PW. Just need an assist to allow you to continue off the 6B overhead.
Just my 2 cents on the matter.
You could find a long pinning assist that allows you to combo off of overhead pretty easily. Opponent will fall into the assist if you time it correctly, allowing further combos. You can try the usual candidates of Amy/Chun to see how well it works.
I’d say vase is also a good evidence it comes out fast and recovers fast so it has some combo potential the arcing on the projectile helps against some characters.
Example combo: :d::l:–>:d::h:–>:d::h:–>(vase)–>:h:–>:s:–>j.
–>j.:h:–>j.:d::h:–>(pause for a bit)–>:s:–>(vase)–>:qcb::atk::atk: 580k damage.
Interesting point in the frame data I just found. Ground Recoveries: Neutral - 19 frames Rolls- 33 frames. There’s a 14 frame difference.
Phoenix Wright’s objections all have 13 active frames (20 if u have 3 pieces of evidence) and 20 frame startups (27 for 3 pieces of evidence). Objections cover quite a bit of space. In the corner, you may even be able to cover all possible recovery areas, and the frame timings seem perfect. With a 20 frame start up and a 19 frame neutral recovery, there’s nothing the opponent can do but block or get hit in the corner if you’re not within range of a throw. If they forward tech, with correct spacing, they should still get hit with the objection, but near the end of the active frames.
Assume the enemy begins rolling at frame 0. With this setup, as soon as you see the roll or standing, react and object (is 5 frames realistic?). Thus, say we start objection at 5 frames. At frame 25, active frames begin. Thus, if the opponent remains neutral, unless they have a 6 frame fairly long range attack, they are forced to block (19+6). If they roll, they recover on frame 33, but because of Phoenix Wright’s long active frames, Objection will still be out until frame 38. Again, forced block/hit. Also, because this move is a extended hitbox, if an assist is called, it’ll simply get hit.
While this isn’t a guaranteed hit, if timed correctly, it’s a a guaranteed block. From there mix it up as you will. However, if you perform this in anticipation of an assist call while you have 3 pieces of evidence, you can tag the assist and go into TA mode.
I understand this was a decent amount of math, but it’d be cool if some of you guys tried it out. Unfortunately, I don’t have ready access to UMVC3, and I can’t test this. If you actually can’t set yourself to cover both neutral and forward roll positions, then sorry for the long post and back to the drawing board. Also, this assumes assists can only be called fairly late in the roll. If the assist comes out before objection comes out, it can hit you out of it. Then, you simply have to counteract this with your own assist call as you use objection.
Also, one more thing, standing S is -3 on block outside of TA mode. That’s pretty damn safe, especially since it seems to push people out of throw range. The only character I know with a 3 frame normal is Ammy, and it might be to far to connect? Plus, it’s probably pretty tough to perfectly time a normal to counteract it.
Does anyone know how many frames a hard knockdown incurs? I can’t seem to find it in the guide or on any online sources. Unfortunately, as I stated, I don’t have access to UMVC3, so I can only theory craft with the guide on hand.
Edit. Scratch the assist issue. Assists come out slow (40+ frame start-up on average). You should have more than enough to have the objection out.
Fuck. This evidence mechanic is weird as hell. The theory I thought would be possible was contradicted when I saw IReid’s video again. Very peculiar…
METHOD: I did this in Training Mode, recorded Wright going: Neutral Jump [“Any leads (intake breath), Any leads…(intake breath), Any leads…I’ve Here! Here! Here!”]x2. I then proceeded to playback several times. **This was one session. **I think more are needed.
Nothing is “frame perfect”, aside from the record function, so take these numbers with a grain of salt. **Unless stated otherwise (and you will know when), all evidence whiffed on the opponent. **
REVISED LEGEND
[details=Spoiler]0 Meat
1 Photo
2 Vase
3 Documents
4 Watch
5 Knife
6 Cell Phone
7 Ox
8 Shades
9 Bonsai Tree
10 Plunger
11 Servbot
RECORD - First set of evidence is recorded
REFRESH - Training Mode is reset by pressing Start + Select
(WALK AWAY) -I Superjumped away for a change of pace, to see if it would change the string.
(WALK UP) - I walked up to them before starting.
(DUMMY BLOCKED A PIECE) - Dummy blocked a thrown piece of evidence. I do not know which one.
(DUMMY BLOCKED “b/c”) - Of the set, “a/b/c” and “d/e/f”, dummy blocked second two of first set.[/details]
TEST 1
[details=Spoiler]RECORD
REFRESH
4/10/3
3/6/5
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
(WALK AWAY)
4/10/3
4/6/11
4/10/3
3/6/5
(WALK UP)
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
(WALK AWAY)
4/10/3
3/6/5
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
(WALK AWAY & Dummy blocked a piece)
4/10/3
3/6/5
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
(Dummy blocked a piece)
4/10/3
3/6/5
(WALK AWAY)
(Dummy Blocks “10/3”)
4/10/3
4/6/11
4/10/3
3/10/4
REFRESH
4/10/3
3/6/5
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
(Dummy Blocks “10/3”)
4/10/3
4/6/11
(Dummy Blocks “10”)
4/10/3
3/6/5
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
(Dummy blocks “10”)
4/10/3
3/6/5
REFRESH
4/10/3
3/6/5
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
4/10/3
3/10/4
REFRESH
4/10/3
3/6/5
4/10/3
3/10/4[/details]
FACTS:
>“4/10/3” was “my set” of evidence, just like how “3/8/1” was IReid’s.
>“4/10/3 & 3/6/5” was my first set of evidence in the Training Mode session. This set also appeared every time I restarted.
>At first I kept getting “3/10/4” and decided to walk away to change it up. It affected the second set. I later considered the possibility that “3/10/4” only came up as a result of “4/10/3” whiffing entirely. That’s when I realized that “4/10/3” always became “3/10/4” on every occasion that the first pieces of evidence whiffed as I tossed them (with the exception of the Initial & Refreshed sets).
>The above pattern was only deviated from if I changed my distance (and a piece of evidence hit the dummy’s guard as a result). This could simply be due to not enough numbers though…
THEORYFIGHTER:
>The first set of evidence is always frame dependent. The other set is dependent on whether or not the first pieces whiff (I think IReid’s video actually contradicts this, so I need to sample more).
>Second set of evidence is dependent on the distance between Wright and his opponent (probably not). I only offer this because IReid was dashing as he collected evidence, while my Wright simply neutral jumped in place.
This could all be a coincidence and incorrect though (especially after looking over IReid’s video once more). Is it possible that it’s just Training Mode’s Record function screwing with me? I need to try this again. I’m not particularly good at figuring this stuff out though…:tdown:
Interesting, especially since the wind from the sneeze is a detached hit-box. Could this be Wright’s standard mid-range poke (the only thing he really seems to be lacking, imo; Hold It is good but slow, damage and assists decent, etc)?
It’s -3 on block and + 3 on block in TA Mode. I think it’s a pretty good way to keep your moves safe. The animation lasts longer than the required recovery frames, so if you hold back after S, the recovery animation will cut short and you are able to block.
I was playing against my brother over the weekend. He plays Spencer/<random>/Hawkeye. It was hard to avoid the mix-ups from Spencer and Hawkeye. Any tips to deal with a rush down character covered by a beam.
Get photo/watch, they nullify low power beams and keep going. Paperwork is also really good against most assist projectiles and controls mid-range pretty well, imo. Basically, get photo/watch, get into Trial mode with a meter. Find a touch of death punish off of Judge hyper with your team (if it’s even Judge xfc tag to OTG-capable character, do it; makes Bionic Arm a huge risk). Also, Hawkeye isn’t rush down…
>_>
Since I play Tron/Wright/Sent, I can just sacrifice a bar when Wright is under rushdown pressure for an invincible crossover reversal that leads to 950k+ damage…:wgrin: