My thoughts exactly. We also must consider the fact that it’s not as if you get the 3 right pieces of evidence and then go straight into turnabout mode. You have to find the 3 pieces of correct evidence AND THEN you must hit the objection, which you will usually have to start a combo (with this relatively slow character who doesn’t look he has any strong mix-ups) in order to do with how slow the move is.
So, let’s assume that Phoenix Wright gathers all 3 pieces of evidence AND lands a combo with an objection in it before dying against much faster top-to-high tier characters with more intimidating normals and mix-ups (and often teleports) like Vergil and Zero. Alrighty then, for your efforts you get the awesome turnabout mode, but now you only have about 20-23 seconds and you are tasked with opening up top-level players like Justin Wong and Combofiend who will be prompted to run away…what do you do? You have an overhead finger attack and…your limited mix-ups are all pretty much the same.
Note: I’m not saying Phoenix Wright won’t be able to beat good characters, doesn’t have tournament potential, or is useless outside turnabout mode, but when you look at what he currently has on his plate…how can a bunch of you be saying he looks like a insta-top tier, much less high tier? He has to suffer to become temporarily really scary (or not if it’s easy to time the mode out), while other characters will be fast, furious, and killing with one combo all the time (and they don’t have to worry about possibly horrible luck or having a team built around them).
Eh not really, this argument I’m making is much more educated and targets different issues. Phoenix was being called out for health and meter requirements, both of which can be simply overcame in the MvC3 environment (which we are now well acquainted with, unlike back then). I’m calling Phoenix Wright out for mobility and mix-ups, both of which are key elements of top level play.
I’m no messiah of predictions, which is why I recognize Wright still has potential, but my points are pretty hard to deny as of now.
You may want to check the formatting for the overhead
Now I have some free time so I’m gonna start browsing footage but I guess we’ve heard from multiple people that the cell phone does a 3-orb multilock projectile? Based off of Nova vs Wright 2 he also has the knife which does a 3 shot spread, the flower vase which does the arcing (tracking?) beam, and what looks to me like a Crime Scene Photo (a polaroid) does the straight beam. I’ll be back with more later today as long as my baby doesn’t wake up and have a fit lol.
The thing is you guys aren’t considering that mobility for characters was generally nerfed. You’ve got slower air dashes and trijumps, the inability to block during them and also the X-Factor speed nerf. Even if mobility remains important, I doubt it will be as important as it was in Vanilla.
Not saying you are wrong into thinking Wright might have some problems, but it’s still too early to judge these things since the metagame will most likely not be the same as in Vanilla.
So is this the point where we theory fight about assists? I’ve heard/seen good things about Doom Missiles and Jam Session helping Wright out, especially with comboing into/out of Objection. Personally, I think comboing into it is the bigger problem, because if they get away when the Objection is landed, then I think some easy unblockables can be set up with that obscenely large pointer finger.
Nah, no theory fighter involved. I’m just saying if Wright has to collect 3 good pieces of evidence (even if it isn’t hard) so he has a chance at starting a touch of death combo with his relatively limited looking mix-ups and mobility…that just doesn’t seem particularly good (much less broken or top tier) to me when we have characters who will be crazy good at opening you up at all times and will be killing in 1-2 combos (sometimes 1 combo into a reset) anyway. Also keep in mind, that assists will be greatly helping these characters as well as Wright.
Argh WTF twitch.tv why are you putting an arbitrary one-skip limit per video!?!?!? Then if I want to skip further ahead I have to reload the video and sit through another 30 second ad! Who the fuck designs these things!?!?!?
I was wondering why it was doing that. I just run noscript or adblock though I think I have both. The ad won’t come up however you still will have to reload.
i think PW is going to need a low hitting assist to be able to make his pointy objection finger something to be worried about, so he can land the ground bounce version and hopefully convert that into a combo into level 3. i hope theres other ways to combo into his objection without the use of an OTG assist as well. im not sure yet if my team is going to end up having one yet or not since i havent fully decided on my team yet.
If you hit a finger, there’s absolutely no reason you can’t level 3 unless you didn’t have meter to begin with. Between a ground and a wall bounce variation, you should be hitting at least a 2-3 hit finger combo.
I personally think there is/will be a discovered combo from Objection into finger. I am almost positive I saw this in one of the NYCC videos. Even if this wasn’t the case, there’s some setup out there that will allow this to happen – I think the time window there is small enough that it can be linked.
Which leads to the main problem to be getting the Objection in. I can think of several tournament viable ways off the top my head:
[LIST]
[]Low Assist (demonstrated in NYCC)
[]TAC (2/3 chance)
[*]Lockdown mixups (Trish round harvest, Ammy assist, etc)
[/LIST]
Of course, this is mostly theory fighter right now. However, my point is that its too early to cry either “godlike” or “foul” at this point – PW is shown to have the potential AND damage output to make him at least worthwhile to learn. Until we get our hands on the game, I think it’ll be best to just stay optimistic and get hype.
and now that i think about it, watching meter building is probably the only thing i forgot to check out from the gameplay footage. just wanted to watch my man WRIGHT!
Yeah, I gotcha. Just to make sure I’m on the same page with everyone again, I’m not saying Wright will be bad, I’m just saying he doesn’t look high tier or top tier based on the what we know about him right now.
It’ll be very interesting to see where Wright goes and I will definitely try to take an active part (possibly videos) in unlocking what potential he may have.
Ok so after watching a billionty videos it really seems like there are only 6 pieces of “good” evidence that are always good. I also remember Seth saying the thing about good evidence rotating so I’m thinking either A) they haven’t implemented that yet, B) they haven’t designed projectiles for every available piece of evidence yet, or C) Seth was somehow mistaken. Anyways here are the 6 pieces of evidence that have been good every single time they’ve come up in the 20+ hours of comiccon footage I scrubbed through:
[LIST]
[]Autopsy Report - Floating orb at Trish’s Peekaboo height, delayed explosion (probably also explodes on contact)
[]Broken Vase - Arcing projectile, travels half-screen (zoomed out)
[]Cell Phone - 3 floating orbs like Dante’s Multi-Lock, fires after a short delay
[]Crime Scene Photo - 5-hit horizontal beam
[]Knife - 3 spread beams, covers about a 60 degree angle
[]Wristwatch - Single orb fired horizontally, basically a Hadoken
[/LIST]
