I did, in fact, see the first video. I feel like those setups are more true in the sense that it will catch any direction. This is why I asked about forward rolling your estaka setups :).
Good stuff though, it gives me some ideas I want to try with Jill.
Question for Jill/Dante players(or any Jill player), do think jam session or weasel shot is the better assist for Jill? I feel like in theory jam session is better but it seems difficult to convert off of it when it hits.
Whenever I use Dante and Jill, I only use Jam Session to dissuade my opponent from super jumping. To me, it’s really important to keep your opponent grounded as Jill since Jill has a terrible air game. I usually have another horizontal assist to fill the gap left by the lack of Weasel Shot though (i.e Arrows).
If I use Dante I use Jll/Dante (weasel)/Doom (missiles), so I have the vertical and horizontal covered.
How well can Jill can protect hidden missiles?
In my opinion, pretty well if you use QCF H along with feral dashes.
I guess I can see that working as long as I am pretty close to my opponent when I do it.
Exactly, and Doom missiles help a lot with combos and stupid amounts of mix-ups when they come down. Most of the time if I do call doom missiles
I’m already on the opposite side of them with my assist pretty safe. I use weasel shot more for lock down and resets though. If I get Dante down good enough,
I would drop Hulk (and replace him with Dante because of his overall versatility) and just use Jill/Dante/Doom and Modok/Jill/Sent.
Plus with weasel shot you get a good assist for Doom if he has to come in (or you want Dante to heal a little), it’s almost similar to clockworks Doom/Ammy (coldstar)
So I kinda stopped using Jill shortly after Ultimate came out, mostly because my main team in Vanilla (Jill, Ammy, Doom) got a bit nerfed (DHC glitch, Cold Star + MGS combo extension, and hard knockdown on Arrow Kick assist all removed) and I didn’t feel like putting in effort for a new team/finding new shit to abuse.
Anyway, I’ve been thinking about picking her up again, which means finding a new team. So far I’ve been feeling
Jill / Doom / Ammy
Same team, different order. Doom/Ammy is a strong pair for when Jill dies, and I like the DHC from Jill to Doom (MGS > Photon Array for safe way out, OTG MGS > Sphere Flame lines itself up nicely and does decent damage though it’s a bit meter expensive, and Raven Spike > Sphere Flame for actual damage.) What I don’t like, though, is the lack of aerial control for Jill. I guess I could switch Plasma Beam out for Hidden Missiles, but I have no idea how I’d protect Doom with Jill.
Jill / Dante / Wesker
Dante is probably my best character, has great DHCs with almost anybody, and I can switch between Jam Session or Weasel Shot depending on the matchup. Wesker is of course on gunshot assist, for general combo extension, getting something decent off an air throw, and unblockables with Dante (and Jill too, I suppose, though I haven’t played around with any setups yet.) Unfortunately, this only gives me 1 assist for neutral, and I feel like Jill is one of those characters who can’t really shine without 2 strong assists.
Jill / Doom / Wesker
Similar aspects of the above, but in this case my plan once Jill dies is to get Wesker 2nd, Doom last, usually via Photon Array > Maximum Wesker, then pray that Wesker + Beam assist will get the job done. I like having XF2 Wesker + Assist over either of them with XF3, but then if something goes wrong then I have to somehow make a comeback with XF-less Wesker or Doom. Not really a great position to be in.
Jill / Sentinel / Akuma
I love drones. I hate Sentinel, lol. But a DHC into Plasma Storm tends to do a shitload of damage, and Sent + Akuma isn’t a bad combination. Tatsu is a great assist, obviously, though I do often have trouble getting anything substantial off of it with Jill. And of course, XF3 Akuma is more than capable of making a comeback.
Sorry if I got a bit wordy there. Jill is one of my favorite characters (in general, not just in this game) so I really want to make her work, but I always feel like any team I try out is lacking something. I guess I’ll just have to suck it up and deal with it, though.
Your best bet here is probably Jill/doom/ammy. Wesker anchor is overrated (even though I do use him, I wish I could wean myself off of him). I would go with doom missiles because like I said before, qcf h feral dashes are your best friend here. I think people underestimate how far those dashes carry you across the screen. One of those can cross up your opponent from almost full screen leaving doom relatively safe. Also ammy lockdown is incredible for Jill because of all of her overheads and crazy feral dashes. And everyone knows how good doom ammy are together.
Well it’s not as much about Dark Wesker as it is being able to combo off of air throws. I’m not a fan of him on anchor either, but he’s pretty shitty for DHC-ing, so I stick him last, then if Jill dies try to swap him and my other character. I guess Hidden Missiles can do that for me too, but I don’t exactly plan all my air throws in advance.
Regarding Arrow Kick as a way to get in, I find it effective until my opponent realizes a projectile of some sort, usually a beam super, will easily hit Jill and my assist. I guess I could try to dissuade that with the threat of MGS, but then I still need a good DHC to actually make it something worth fearing. Or maybe I’m just being too obvious with it, lol.
I’ll try the team out some more though, I need to work on my Ammy anyway.
If your getting punished with beam supers than your calling Doom with Jill being too far away from the opponent. Calling Doom as there getting up is a better option against beam based characters especially as there getting up and teleporting to the opposite side like @droid said it leaves Doom pretty safe. It also gives you like 3-4 mix-ups as missiles are falling and I always hit them with that and I usually reset during that for big damage. You have to be more careful against beam characters, and sometimes you can bait a beam super. If you want give Jill/Dante/Doom a try you may like it since you said you enjoy using Dante and he is one of your best characters. That team can do some pretty stupid stuff with Doom missiles.
[media=youtube]ZhUbmIZd-Yk[/media]
(FOR THE DANTE/DOOM MIX-UP VIDEO)
Using Dante’s forced forward knockdown recovery after harpoon along with Doctor Doom’s Hidden Missiles assist.
Note that for the first three mixups, He has Dante dash into the other character to push their body into position for the missiles to hit.
Net Damage: ~1,000,000
Meter Gain (before hyper combo): ~2.3 meters
[media=youtube]-QwotckDMD8[/media]
[media=youtube]2E0mmjajBA8[/media]
Dante with Weasel Shot, then? Don’t really need Jam Session and Hidden Missiles
I used Dante/Doom for a while as my Morrigan team, which is actually why I got sick of using Doom anchor, lol. That, and I don’t really do the lame Morrigan, so Hidden Missiles was only a great assist, rather than an amazing assist for me. Maybe I’ll like it better with Jill, though.
Idk, for some reason I seem to be hung up on an OTG assist. Is it even that necesarry? The damage is scaled to crap so I’d have to reset anyway after a throw, so I wonder if maybe just getting a safe Doom assist call after a throw and going for a mixup off that would be a better option after all.
As for DHCs, do you know if a raw MGS into Devil Trigger can lead to anything? I don’t see why it wouldn’t work, provided you’re close enough when you DHC. Hmm, I’ll have to try some things out next time I get a chance.
Yeah I tested it you can continue to combo off of a raw MGS DHC’d into devil trigger.
I usually use weasel shot with Dante and hidden missiles with Doom, I like being able to combo off of throws too, which is why I also play Modok/Jill/Sent.
She doesn’t really need to be able to combo off of throws to be effective though. Jill is a reset monster, so she doesnt really need to have a assist just to
combo off of throws. A Jill team like that isn’t all that great imo, because you get rid of a place for a good assist and exchange it for a OTG. Once the character
with your good assist is killed you have a more difficult time getting in and winning the match. Which is why I enjoy having 2. Jill is one of those characters in a sense that needs 3 assists. Doom missiles covers otg and the air for Jill. Which is why I love Doom missles. Doom keeps them on the ground where they belong for Jill to put in work.
I need some help with my last teambuilding decision regarding Jill. It’s either going to be Jill/Sentinel/Ammy or Jill/Sentinel/Dante (maybe other order in this one, to be decided.)
Here’s why I can’t decide while Cold Star is the better assist for Jill, I feel that Jam Session would be the better assist for Sentinel, and while Ammy would benefit more from Jill assist (arrow kick), I feel that Dante benefits less from it :(. It’s like a three way mixup between having 2 good assists for Jill, and a decent one for Sentinel, or having a good assist and a decent one for Jill and a good one for Sentinel :S.
Anyone have some groundbreaking insights that might help decide?
You should remove Sent from that team and put someone on the team who would benefit from Jill/Ammy. Why, because Sent users should always build a team around 2 point characters and drones assist. Dante’s Jam Session is really good for Sent, but Dante has the same problem Wesker currently has at anchor… and that is they suck at anchor cause of all the new teams that have been comming out lately in the FG scene, and the raw knowledge everyone has against X characters. And if you really like Ammy you should **take a look at **the character who get unblockables with Cold Star or the characters that get a high/low mixup during X/Ammy THCs. If you like Dante over Ammy you should try out Jill/Dante/Dr.Doom. IDK if your just looking for an online team or an actual tournament team, but the current ones you have would have a hard time in the offline FGC scene. Too many holes.:shake:
I’m not sure I agree with everything you say, but a lot of it makes sense. Running Dr Doom is a big no-no because I seriously despise that character in every way imaginable.
Maybe I should just cave and run Jill/Magneto/Ammy, or Jill/Mags/Sentinel or smt. Those run of the mill shells are such a huge turn off though. Jill/Sent/Ammy actually has a lot of really good synergy provided you can get some meter going one way or the other. Double bounce into Sentinel’s plasma storm fixes Jill’s damage output (though you could do this with Sent in 3rd I guess), getting someone trapped in Cold star all but guarantees a hit if you get your mixups down with Jill and Drones should cover her on the way in, which she should be able to protect at least once with MGS. That’s the theory anyways. Sent/Ammy is one safe DHC away from being Ammy/Sent and Sent doesn’t have to deal with incoming mixups. He gets a solid zoning game with Cold Star and I’m positive Sentinel is one of those characters that looks bad on paper but can still get the job done if a player plays his cards right and stays solid enough (I think DiosX proved this yesterday). Assist wise they all do a lot for each other as well. Sent gets a wallbounce combo extender that combos from spit and let’s him combo from throws for no meter spent, plus a lockdown assist for getting some breathing room and some zoning. Ammy gets the same combo extension and drones to cover her/make her IOH/throw/low game scarier.
Just… that SJ height, ya know? -_-
That’s fine, it’s just an opinion.
You should play who you want to play, from the post above you seem to know much about those teams, so like… why even ask other players when most of us don’t even use the same teams?o_O I’ve been using Jill/Mag/Sent since vanilla MvC3 (day 1 Jill DLC) and before I started to expose my tech to the public the only other Jill/Mag/Sent user I knew was my Dunamis, and fuck him for dropping my team xD. Asking for advice? So you can correct each person that tell you something negative about you’re team?
Seriously, people should just ask for the tech, and if there isn’t any good/advance tech for the characters you use, then come up with your own tech. it may take time, but at least no one else is using that godlike tech you came up with. And when I say “tech” I don’t mean a bunch of Jill combos, I’m talking about the other stuff that no one ever shows off cause they don’t have any. :shake: Real talk, could someone show me some “never before seen” dirty ass Jill tech?
But… like… I was just asking opinions on whether Dante or Ammy would fit better… :shake:
I thought that maybe someone with first hand experience using Dante would be able to tell me something like “You use Ammy for X but you can use Dante in Y and Z ways and provide you with the same results but better! Ergo, use Dante!” or vice versa.
Or something like, “You want to use Dante for A but in my experience A doesn’t come up much or Jill has B and C tools to deal with that so there’s no need to put Dante on your team for that purpose.”
Just trying to get some input, and you gave me some, and I evaluated it, and I still am. No need to get bent out of shape.
To be honest Arrow Kick and Somersault are both great for Dante, Arrow kick extends Dante’s combo’s for a little more damage. Arrow kick also creates a mix-up similar to Dante/Mags call arrow kick teleport is nasty especially during block strings and it does decent chip. You can even set up resets with Arrow Kick and Dante on point. Dante is a character that doen’t really need somersault as much because of his many tools and high mobility. You can always alternate assists according to the match up.
Edit: plus you can combo off of Dante’s air throws with arrow kick.