So no one’s been posting here for awhile… I hope that doesn’t mean that people stopped playing Rufus, or that he stopped being interesting beyond a particular point.
I think his worst three match ups are Blanka, Zangief and Gouki.
What do you guys do against a turtling Blanka? This is by far the most boring match up for Rufus. You can’t jump, since electricity beats dive kick and vertical ball will hit you cleanly out of everything if he has charge.
Horizontal Balls can’t be punished consistently with c.HP (in fact, I’m pretty sure that certain strengths of Horizontal Ball are unpunishable, period). I hate this match up. Its not unwinnable, but Rufus just can’t make ANY mistakes at all since its really easy for Blanka to hold on to and extend a life lead.
Gouki match up is bad not just because of the air fireball, but because of the damn far roundhouse and the 0 frame start up teleport. The first means that if you get in without frame advantage, there’s a good chance you’ll be pressured into losing life, unless you can burst out with an Ex Messiah, which is punishable with SRK on block. The second means, that anytime they feel like it, they get to reset the match for free.
I like fighting Abel. I think the match is right down in the middle even and there are lots of mind games to consider.
Once Abel forces you to block a far s.LP or f+MK and goes for his dash cancel shenanigans, you pretty much have to burn meter to Ex- Messiah kick (if you think he’s going to grab/attack you after the dash) or try to throw him (if you think he’s going to attack) after a dash cancelled f+MK. Jumping out is only an option if he’s predictable with the command grab, but if he sticks to (LPX2> f+MK> Dash)xn you just get hit and die.
Light Roll allows him to dodge all Messiah Kick follow ups. If you do any follow up at all, he gets to grab you for free.
Once he has Ultra, your options are cut down by a lot. All Messiah Kicks are punishable as long as they don’t hit. If they whiff, he Ultras you from behind. If there’s blocked, he Ultra’s you before the follow ups for free. He can also punish a blocked c.HP from max range.
After a dive kick, if you decide to go for anything else but a perfect block string, Abel has really good answers for whatever you do. Ex Anti-air grab will grab you if you try to dive kick again. Command grab will grab you if you do anything else.
Just came back from the arcade where I beat one of the best Ryu players around in a couple of matches playing in a totally different way from how I normally do. I’ve never been able to beat him before. Here?s how I now think the Ryu/Sagat match upshould be played:
Close distance with vertical jump> Dive kick. More and more of my match ups with Ryu and Sagat have me jumping up and down randomly and using the extra hang time from the dive kick to avoid landing on fireballs. Its a great way to slowly gain ground without taking significant damage, as long as you know which distances start getting dangerous. (Ryu/Sagat’s jump range, Sagat’s f+HK range). You almost never want to jump forward because Rufus’ jump is floaty and Rufus is big fat uppercut bait.
Pressure with s.LK and far s.LP. Both of these moves give Rufus considerable frame advantage, and once you get Sagat or Ryu to start blocking them, it becomes significantly riskier for them to bust out with SRK> FADC> Ultra, since you can (and should) leave holes in your block strings once you’re out of throw range and just block if you think they’re trying to reversal uppercut. Both close s.LK and far s.LP are also great leads for another dive kick to restart the pressure. **This means once you do manage to force Sagat or Ryu to force a dive kick, its better to pressure with these two moves and follow up with tick throw/bait a shoryu/another dive kick /a Glory Kick /an overhead than it is to chain into a blocked Tornado. ** Fight the urge to do blocked Tornados. The tick damage isn’t worth the fact that you just made it easier for them to push you out. The nice thing is that if the dive kick does hit, you still have time to hit confirm after s.LK into s.HP> Tornado.
**Use c.MP/s.HP as ‘last minute’ anti-airs and Ex Snake Strike (without j.HK) as an early anti-air. **As tempting as it is to use j.HK> Ex Snake Strike/Ultra as anti-air, you will have to do the j.HK really early to beat their jump attacks. Good players don’t telegraph their jumps so easily. Ex Snake Strike does tons of damage by itself, and gives you until they’re just above your head to anti-air them.
Against early cross ups, use FP Snake Strike to stop them. Against late cross ups, just block and crouch tech if you think they’re going to go for a throw. Once they push you out, make your way back in again with vertical jump dive kick.
I haven’t played this match up that much, but I think the worse part about the balrog match up is that triangle jump dive kicks seem to whiff a lot against him. I’m guessing balrog’s blue hit boxes while crouching are a little further back than other characters.
I think the match seems to boil down to using a footsie game to get within far stand jab range where its much easier to start dive kick pressure without being crouch fierced out of the air.
Few things I find about this match up:
The only time Rufus is at an advantage is when you’re rushing down with Dive kick> s.LK > Tick throw/triangle dive kick pressure. Head butt and crouch fierce are too slow to stop you once you’re doing that. Its essential to keep it as tight as possible because Rog can break out of this is by teching a throw or beating your dive with a crouch jab, and once you’re out of that zone, he’s at an advantage again.
Or your dive kick can whiff and you get hit by a crouch jab. Annoying as hell, and I hope someone can tell me how to avoid that.
Ex Messiah is relatively safe in this match up. LK follow up if you think he’s going to FA. No follow up> Throw if you think he’s going to TAP through your follow up. HK follow up for everything else. I try to save the meter for situations when I need to break out of crouch jab strings and to reverse rushing punches.
As Viscant notes in the Blanka thread, random FAing in footsies is a pretty good idea in this match up since it stops most of his offensive options and his armour breaking moves aren’t spammed in his footsie game. Lvl 1 FAs on Rush punches don’t guarantee a crumple stun tho, so I guess the safest follow up is either a backdash or front dash> throw.
Once you corner him, mashing stand Jab outside of his crouch jab range is generally a good idea. If he jumps, close stand jab will hit him out of the air. Far stand jab outranges his crouch jab and puts you at +7 on block allowing you to walk forward and stand Jab again, or go for a dive kick/overhead. The only real safe option he seems to have against this is to bust out an Ex Rush punch, which if you’re watching out for you can Ex Messiah against.
Crouch Fierce stops Rush punches if you do it first, but I think it should only be done very sparingly because Jab Straight Rush punch seems to punish it on block and if he jumps over it, he can punish with Jump Roundhouse (or if it fierce?)> crouch Roundhouse even at max range.
I think the key to this match up is best played by recognising how to get your dive kicks to whiff and how to get them to hit so that you can alternate between whiff> throw, hit> pressure, then push him into the corner so that you can stand jab/dive kick/throw him to death.
i just wanted someone to clarify this issue i had against Sagat…
for Sagat’s High Tiger Shots i purposely tried doing his df+mk roll just to see if i can go thru it unharmed.
EVERYTIME i got hit, i even tried diff timing. Either i skipped something in this thread or was the info about the roll going thru high tigers completely false…:wonder:
side note: i raped that sagat that same match :]
side note2: BOBINO! YOUR RUFUS IS THEE SHIZ! i still need to face Ken I for complete training… but in the mean time, i hope to encounter you again someday for my rematch. maybe at AI or Denjin? PLEASE let me know wsup good sir :]
The throw/dive kick is not a 50/50. The correct method is do either do a throw or mix it up with a st.fierce into the tornado (st.strong works too, but I’m greedy and want more damage, and it’s also easier to create the gap since the fierce is a 1 frame link). The gap is bigger with strong, but the idea is you do st.short and then create a gap small enough so that your st.fierce beats his cr.jab. A 2nd dive kick only works if they are trying to throw you, which would be dumb in the first place because rufus has the ability to do a divekick and then land and do EX messiah kick. Balrog doing a cr.jab after a divekick beats pretty much anything you do at the right height and he can block in time for the EX so a jab would be a safer thing for the Balrog player to do. Balrog’s cr.jab never beats the divekick, what happens is if you attempt a 2nd divekick, his cr.jab prevents you from jumping again, in which case he gets the advantage as you flip out and land.
EX messiah kick is not safe at all. Balrog’s jab straight punch beats every ender you do including the option of doing nothing at the end. The only option Rufus has to beat that cleanly out is a delayed flipkick ender (short). That option alone is risky too because all the Balrog player has to do is block and he gets a free combo on you. Why a Balrog player would do a TAP against EX messiah? Doesn’t the low kick ender beat it cleanly?
FA Balrog’s attacks, he can pressure you with straights and IMO it’s not worth it to lose all that life. Lvl1 FA vs. the straight punch does crumple but to get that to work, you have to hit him during the hit animation as opposed to his recovery animation, which will not crumple. If you don’t get the crumple and you dash forward, you better be blocking because at a dash of 20 frames (avg is like 17 frames), Balrog gets to hit you with a cr.jab before you can even throw him. The only way you can net a throw attempt is if the FA is a Lvl2 or higher.
Balrog has absolutely no reason to jump at all during this entire match unless he knocks you down and goes for a meaty jumping attack.
I don’t think that would be a viable option seeing as how Balrog’s jab straight has a faster startup than the 14 frames it takes for Rufus to do a cr.fierce. AND he can punish you upon blocking it as well, and even if you take turns, he’s dishing out chip damage and you’re just building meter.
Divekicks are only viable on a knockdown IF and only if you are able to get next to him point blank before his getup animation even starts. Crossup divekicks are not useful at all seeing as how Balrog can simply EX dash upper thru it to escape or TAP and get out if he has no meter. A Balrog waking up with a headbutt against rufus shows desperation. There’s no need for and it’s the only thing a crossup divekick will beat.
Knowing that Balrog has a hind legs stance is important because his lower body hitbox leans backward more, thus the reason why divekicks whiff against him. Also important to know is the fact that his getup animation is different from everyone elses. If you are point blank when he gets up, he actually gets up backwards and upon standing, you’ll notice that there becomes a small space automatically which makes crossing up Balrog with someone like Ken really difficult.
As such, your best offensive option upon knocking him down is not to apt for a divekick, but to go for a safe jump (ST style) in case the Balrog is stupid and resorts to a headbutt on wakeup. It is much more reliable than whiffing a divekick in his face and having to either whiff a throw only to have him jab you into a combo (the EX dash upper loop for example), or to have him throw you expecting that you would actually hit him.
Another way to get in is to use his glory kick. On hit it gives you +3 which you can create a 50/50 off of and on CH you can actually combo from. On block it’s 0 (zero) which means that if he does his jab (3f) and you throw (3f), you will win assuming you guys both input at the fastest possible timing. This forces him to either tech, in which case you can divekick to punish for a combo or he will have to resort to j.fierce backwards (which you will never be able to hit w/your j.roundhouse) or backdash. Also EX headbutt but I wouldn’t imagine a Balrog player using that unless it’s for the win in that situation. Rufus can throw Balrog out of his normal headbutt.
One of the things that makes this match 10 times easier is the fact that aside from Vega, Balrog is the only other character you can link an ultra from his tornado anywhere on the screen (albeit it’s with fastest possible input timing). If you learn the timing, having an ultra becomes more useful.
I play a lot of Balrogs and that is the most popular character in our area. The match is tough but the keys are netting knockdown opportunities and forcing 50/50s off of frame advantaged situations. Another key factor that may or may not help you is paying attention to Balrog’s movement as it very much dictates his behavior.
Good stuff. I don’t play Balrog much, so its good to hear from someone who does.
I’m pretty sure I’ve actually been hit out of the dive kick animation. No idea if the dive kick would have connected if he hadn’t thrown a jab, thanks to the weird hitbox, but yeah.
The s.Short> wait 1 frame> s.Fierce sounds really interesting, especially since it can end with a Tornado>Ultra. Definitely gotta try that more.
Wow. I would’ve thought that overhead would beat jab straight, or at least both would whiff. Good thing the Balrogs here don’t know that yet.
Yep. Like I said, its not really a strategy, since the risk/reward is way in his favour. I do think doing it very occasionally isn’t a bad idea since there’s nothing really you can do at that range anyway (besides slowly try to close distance), and it makes Balrog think twice about spamming rush punches.
Ah… thanks. I thought I was just being sloppy with my dive kick timing.
How about crossing up with j.MK? I’ve been incorporating it in my game a lot more lately and its been really great against shotos/Sagat.
Damn I didn’t know that. We definitely more of these character specific tidbits on this thread.
So I forgot how to multiquote like the retard I am. A couple things:
Yes the jab straight hits rufus on the way up from overhead and he doesn’t even get in the air for that ender.
What I try to do when I predict any dash punch from balrog is the fierce tornado once I create enough distance as to having him do it. What I used to do was focus his jab straight if I predicted correctly and do crouching forward into tornado if he switched to the cannon (armor breaking). But seeing as how trying to get a crumple of a Lvl1 FA on his jab straight, I felt the tornado works better. Albeit it is riskier to do cuz he can just wait it out and on reaction to it, he can jump and get a free combo on rufus.
I have only tried crossup forward once as a meaty and the time I did it, it worked because I did a st.fierce into tornado but I think it was because the Balrog was doing something other than blocking. I imagine it wouldn’t be good seeing as how Balrog can walk to avoid it, but I’ll have to try that out more since I don’t even know the timing on it. Landing crossups in general on Balrog are…well they’re not hard but the followup combo usually doesn’t land right because of distancing with many characters.
Yea I just got back from playing with Gootecks’ Balrog in preparation for sinsation and I don’t think it’s going too well (I had a 50 win streak and finally lost for going for 1f ultras from cr.shorts). I’m trying to have Bobino play him because he has a completely different playstyle altogether so hopefully that will help. Last I checked bob gets owned by him and he even considered learning balrog himself because he said that it was a tough matchup.
Honestly tho, IMHO the matchup is 5/5, if anything 5.5/4.5 if it isn’t. Balrog has more priority and has a better ground game and distancing. The only problem is that he doesn’t nearly dish out as much damage as Rufus does when he lands a combo. But Rufus has to work for it by getting knockdowns and pressing 50/50s. Rufus can take Balrog’s combo with the ultra and it won’t hurt as much the other way around. Rufus has the 2nd highest life in the game at 1150 hp 2nd to only Zangief’s 1200.
Oh, and another helpful information is that you can do the character specific combo on Balrog that also works on Honda, Abel, and Vega. Having 4 meters, land an EX messiah kick and then focus cancel dash forward and immediately do EX snake strike for FULL HITS. However, this doesn’t work in the corner. I even tried doing a backdash and it still didn’t pick him up when he was in the corner.
Btw, all this information I gathered is posted on the wiki…
…the japanese one. I think the matchups section was a bit abbreviated but for the most part, the only in depth ones that I remember them having were Blanka, Fuerte, and I think Bison.
once the console version comes out
we need to come out with ways to defeat the exclusive characters(Rose Gen Sakura)
I Can’t see too many rufus players having a hard time with dan so i excluded him from the list
A lot of people hate Rufus because he is fat and people consider him a waste of a slot in the game since his fatness is obscene. I think he is a cool character, not to mention the best of the 4 new ones in my honest opinion.
Yo so…I was fuckin around with Rufus, and I don’t know if anyone has thought of this before/what the block properties are…but EX twirl FADC throw will always kill someone in the last round. Shits too good, I’m sure someone thought of it before…but this one was special cuz I was smacked.
We need more strats vs fireball spammers… seriously.
just jumping up doing divekicks to avoid fireballs doesn’t work that well it seems. especially if you are in the corner there seems to be no way out of the OG fireball lockdown without burning an EX mesiah kick.
i noticed that it is extremely hard to get divekick > hp > hp tornado on crouching opponents… or is it just me?
Is tornado’s ability to go through fireballs ineffective? I’ve heard it’s not great, but not sure why. In general I heard, Snake Striking over it to generate bar is a good strategy. The people I play don’t play fireball spammers much, and it’s been decent in limited use for that purpose.
The only reason jumping up and doing dive kicks to avoid fireballs wouldn’t work is if the other player is reading you and jump kicking you out of the air.
Otherwise, IMO, vertical jumps are the best way to set yourself up to get into his face to pressure him with footsies using stand Jab/Strong/Forward.
Against Sagat, you get the extra option of going of jump forward cross up once you’re inside 1.5 character space of him… not so much against Ryu who’s much more difficult to cross up.
The real reason why Shotos/Sagat are hard match ups for Rufus isn’t because of their ability to fireball… Its their ability to stop divekick shenanigans with Shoryu.
If you’re in the corner, he’s either far away enough that you can dive kick over fireballs without being in uppercut range or close enough that you can try to get out of the corner by jumping over him.
Dive kick gives quite little hit stun and even less block stun so unless you hit them close to the ground, s.Fierce will probably not combo and almost definately won’t give you a perfect blockstring. That’s why most people do Dive Kick> s.Short> s.Strong/S.Fierce> Fierce Tornado instead.
Tornado’s ability to go through fireballs is actually pretty good. You just have to anticipate the fireball use, and you smack him (and tack on an ultra for free if he’s in the corner). Even if he blocks it, you’re only at -1, and at the perfect range to attack some more. The only danger is being predictable, cause if an opponent knows that Tornado is coming, he’ll just jump up and smack you with a combo on the way down.
People don’t Snake Strike over fireballs anymore, because it generally leaves you vulnerable to a follow up sweep or jump kick from far.
That’s good to know. I actually have been Tornadoing fireballs more than Snakeing them. Was actually working on training myself to do the opposite, but good to know it’s the other way around.